UMaine men 1-11 @ Columbia 1-10 on 12/30/17

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UMaine men 1-11 @ Columbia 1-10 on 12/30/17

Postby bcbc55 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:37 pm

Sonething has to give in the UMaine Blackbears game against the Columbia Lions in New York tomorrow, Saturday, December 30th at 2:00pm as one of the teams will snap a losing streak and one of the teams will gain it's second win of the season.

Columbia is 1-10 against D-1 opponents while Maine is 3-11 overall, but 1-11 in D-1 games that count towards the teams RPI.

Columbia the 288th ranked realtimerpi.com in team RPI rankings hosts Maine the 327th RPI ranked team out of the 351 D-1 Teams. Columbia plays in the 22nd ranked Ivy league and Maine in the 27th ranked America East Conference out of the 32 D-1 conferences in the country.

In Pomeroy team RPI rankimgs Columbia is 221 and UMaine is 335. With Columbia 1-10 and Maine 1-11 versus D-1 competition is the SOS (Strength of Schedule). Realtimerpi.com's SOS for Columbia is 154 and Maine's is 269 while Pomeroy's SOS has Columbia 65 and UMaine is 168.

Columbia's only win is over D-1 Longwood and they are currently on a 8 game losing streak while Maine's only win is over D-1 Qunnipiac 78-72 and on a 2nd 5 game losing streak. Qunnipiac beat Columbia 89-87 in the only game against common opponents.

Columbia lost to America East Albany 86-82 and to Stonybrook 76-66. Lost to Connecticut in OT 77-73.

Here are the team stats comparisons
.................Maine.....Columbia
FG%............39.0........43.5
FS%.............68.7........65.3
3pt%............29.6........37.3
% of 3's/FGA,,44.4........45.4
Off ave........65.4........73.0
Def ave........71.9........77.0

This game is very close to call. Home court advantage is supposed to be worth 10 points and that could be the difference or it could be which team shoots the 3 better. Although Columbia shoots the ball better for FG%, 2 point FG% and 3 point FG% and has a size advantage.
Last edited by bcbc55 on Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:17 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: UMaine men 1-11 @ Columbia 1-10 on 12/30/17

Postby basketball_guy » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:48 pm

Maybe Maine beats Columbia. I really wonder if it matters in the overall scheme of things.
At this point I am looking toward April when a new Coach will be named.

The program really is in limbo state right now which is bad for recruiting. That is why
I would prefer to see Maine pull the plug now, as April is a late time to start recruiting
under a new Coach.

I think the real question now is how many more games will Maine have lost by the end of the
season. It is hard to be postive when you know where the issue is and the AD can't or will not
pull the plug on this guy until Season ends.

Think Spring!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: UMaine men 1-11 @ Columbia 1-10 on 12/30/17

Postby bcbc55 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:56 pm

basketball_guy wrote:Maybe Maine beats Columbia. I really wonder if it matters in the overall scheme of things.
At this point I am looking toward April when a new Coach will be named.

The program really is in limbo state right now which is bad for recruiting. That is why
I would prefer to see Maine pull the plug now, as April is a late time to start recruiting
under a new Coach.

I think the real question now is how many more games will Maine have lost by the end of the
season. It is hard to be postive when you know where the issue is and the AD can't or will not
pull the plug on this guy until Season ends.

Think Spring!!!!!!!!!!!!


basketball_guy: Maine AD could announce NOW that Walsh is a lameduck coach and that hi contract will not be renewed.

This would allow Maine to move forward in the search for a new coach. This way Maine would not have to buy out Walsh's contract for the remainder of the season. If Walsh is upset with that then he could quit and then Maine would not have to buy out remainder of his contract. They could fill in with Bob Simon as interim for the remainder of the season.

How about that?
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Re: UMaine men 1-11 @ Columbia 1-10 on 12/30/17

Postby basketball_guy » Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:49 am

Sounds good to me.

But the AD won't do that is my guess.
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Re: UMaine men 1-11 @ Columbia 1-10 on 12/30/17

Postby Maine19Fan » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:14 am

55: It is extremely rare that a coach will be informed, at mid-season, that he/she won't be renewed. Only happens when there's improprieties of some sort.
It's best to wait until the full body of work can be viewed before making a decision.

I know this is extremely unlikely (almost as much as you embracing the 3-point shot), but suppose UMaine had a terrific league season, won the AE tournament and went to the NCAA's ... but school administrators took your advice and told Walsh, right now, that he wasn't coming back?

I'm not advocating that Walsh be retains if the team turns in another,say, 7-23 season. But, his departure isn't going to happen, if it does, until the season is over.

To think that will happen ... once again ... shows how little you know about how things work at the college level. Even your sidekick, baskeballguy, understands this situation.
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Re: UMaine men 1-11 @ Columbia 1-10 on 12/30/17

Postby basketball_guy » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:20 am

http://bangordailynews.com/2014/05/07/s ... ead-coach/

I can understand based on his record at Rhode Island College that Walsh appeared to be a good choice at the
time, but the signs of an issue were already there before they hired this guy and you rarely see a Division 3 Coach
go on to be successful at the Division 1 level. But I am sure there are exceptions. Just not in this guys case.

Admittedly he does not have a class Divsion 1 facility to play in and
that falls on UMAINE to do something about that because while the UMAINE basketball team can continue to play
in Bangor, you lose those College kids on Campus that would come to a game because it is on campus, and in College basketball you should never underestimate having those kids at a home game. It does make a difference
at least in College Basketball. Back when I was there going to the "PITT" was a true event on campus, but there
was no Hockey program at that time. It was truly the only game in town and on campus during the winter for the
most part. Alfond arena should be left for the Hockey program. Best to look at a new facility for the Mens and
Womens basketball program or at least another expansion of the current setup beyond the upgrades they did
in 2014. They either forgot about the "PITT" or did not want to address the issue at that time. I believe they
need to start a fundraising campaign to at least address the issue, even if takes 10 years to make it happen, that is better than continuing with the way a new coach has to deal with the facility issues.

That clearly is no longer the case, and Hockey does take away a share of the fanbase but that could be easily
changed if they built a new indoor arena of some sort on Campus. I guess that will take some forward thinking
on the part of the Administration. Hopefully, they sill have some forward thinkers in the Administration.

But the MAINE issue is this Coach unfortunately. Whatever the decide to do, they need to take a long hard look
at the next candidate and do a deep evaluation on just what they are getting in a next Head Coach.
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Re: UMaine men 1-11 @ Columbia 1-10 on 12/30/17

Postby Maine19Fan » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:39 am

basketballguy: First, what's the issue related to Walsh before he got hired?
To hit at an impropriety of any kind ... that's just off base (or, in basketball terms, out of bounds).
He is as good a person as any coach anywhere.

Also, do you really think Maine is going build a multi-million dollar new facility, or do a costly renovation of what exists? Not in this fiscal environment when our state school is struggling financially. Not when there's a very nice, 6,000-seat facility only a few miles away. Lots of college teams, some very successful, use off-campus arenas. This isn't the problem.

And, finally, do you actually think that Maine did NOT take a long hard look at candidates that resulted in Walsh's hiring? You think administrators involved with the search did NOT do a deep evaluation?

C'mon, have a clue.

Any time Maine's job is open, there's going to be an extremely small pool of candidates.

First, the salary offered is one of the lowest for any D1 head coach. You're not going to attract even assistants from good programs because they all make considerably more money in those positions.
Plus, our program affords limited resources to basketball: Only two assistants while every other AE school has three full-time assistants. The strong guess is there are similar financial restrictions on recruiting budgets, and any variety of other areas where more money spent would be beneficial.

The other thing is that Maine is surely recognized as career suicide.
For reasons previously discussed ... location/resources, etc ... Maine is one of the most-difficult places in the country to build a successful D1 basketball program. Every other program in the AE has a better location, greater resources, etc.

So, who would all that attract as a candidate?
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Re: UMaine men 1-11 @ Columbia 1-10 on 12/30/17

Postby basketball_guy » Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:38 am

And, finally, do you actually think that Maine did NOT take a long hard look at candidates that resulted in Walsh's hiring? You think administrators involved with the search did NOT do a deep evaluation?

No I don't think that Maine did take enough of a hard look at candidates, and if they did they did not do very good
job as we have seen the last four years. Apparently, that has been an issue with the last two Coaches. I don't back
everything Bob has said to you but his assessment on getting at least someone from New England with a Division
1 Coaching experience is not a bad one. Walsh apparently had that, but as we can see something was lacking.
The results speak for themselves. I don't need to defend a negative.

Your assessment that UMAINE is a tough job to get candidates is ridiculous. Also, you are tallking to a former UMAINE JV player and former walkon at Alabama, so I don't buy what you are saying. I am more than familiar with UMAINES situation as they cut the UMAINE's JV program in the middle of the season in 1978 due to budget cuts, albeit my ending up Alabama. It appears to me you have some insight into Maines situation which makes me think you know a bit more than some of us. I don't pretend to know who you are and I don't care, but this situation right now at Maine is absurd. Also, the idea that the UMAINE job is a job no one wants is also absurd. I think that with the right coach, the job is a good one.

Yes, the cost is going to be an issue, but if they do fundraising over a 10 year timeframe outside of the States
fiscal issues (which can be restrictive), but rather do the fundraising privately it can be accomplished. It will take a while but it can be done. That is why I put a lot of these negatives on the lack of forward thinking. The Governor of Maine does not run the Athletic Department at Maine. There are other ways to do fund raising and that may mean hiring a private fundraiser to work on that issue(without getting the State involved). That is how
Alabama gets around some of these issues, but they plan things out over a period of time. What does Maine do?
My guess is you may have an answer for that as well. I admit I don't have all the answers but at least I admit that.

So, I put that on the Administration more than I do the Coach. Forward thinking at Maine has been lacking for a while, even when I was there. If there was planning they would not have had to drop the program in the middle of the season in 1978. That apparently has not changed much at all. Budget cuts have always been an issue at Maine. But that does not preclude hiring a private fundraiser and it can be done.

But right now this Coach has got to be replaced. The sooner the better.
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Re: UMaine men 1-11 @ Columbia 1-10 on 12/30/17

Postby Maine19Fan » Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:37 am

basketball_guy: Hate to say it, but it doesn't seem that you don't know anything more about the workings of D1 basketball, and UMaine, as it pertains to the real world than does bcbc55.

First, you write that there was an issue with Walsh, prior to his hiring. You fail to identify an "issue." To even hint at an issue is just defaming a good person. You know nothing about Walsh personally. He happens to be a terrific person.

So, YOU don't think Maine took a hard enough look at candidates, etc. You know that, how? Were you involved in the search process. If you don't, and if you don't have contacts within the Maine administration (and, you clearly don't), then you don't know.

Do you really think that any school would do a half-assed job at selecting a coach for, arguably, its most visible program? What sense would that make?

OK, you tell me: How is it not difficult for Maine to attract decent candidates?

Wow, you're a former UMaine JV player and Alabama walk-on. That qualifies you to know about Maine's hiring policies, and Maine's very significant handicaps in attracting good candidates... how?

Bcbc55 has 73 years of a basketball connection, but he's equally clueless about modern-era D1 basketball.

That you saw, first hand, Maine's budget issues nearly 40 years ago when it disbanded its JV program shows that the school's financial limitations have been a problem for more than a few years. Oh, by the way, I'd be hard-pressed to name a single college program that currently has a JV team, or had one in recent memory.

Yes, the situation at Maine is "absurd." That's because of location and financial issues ... one of the lowest-paying D1 jobs nationallly; two full-time assistants, rather than three; limited recruiting budget, limited travel budget, etc., etc.

Fund-raising? The school needs funding before the athletic programs get the benefits of fund-raising. What's more important ... the school's academic side (where pretty severe cuts have already been made), or the athletic programs?

Let me answer that one: The school's primary purpose is to educate students, not to field athletic programs. To do the reverse is to have the tail wag the dog.

And, the fund-raising for athletics can be done ... how? You think they haven't tried? Ours isn't exactly the richest state in the union, nor is it the most-populated one. Trying to get big money from within our state is like trying to get water from a stone.

Alabama gets around some of those issues?
Alabama's revenue from its athletic programs is $164 million annually, fourth-highest in the country. It makes money for the university. Maine's athletic teams are virtual black holes. None of them are profitable.
To make that comparison is just ludicrous, ridiculous.
To compare Maine's financial opportunities to any high-major athletic program ... that's absurd.

The current coach will probably be replaced. But, it won't be during the season.

And, when Maine looks for a new coach, the field of candidates won't be real strong. It won't include high-major D1 assistants. They'll probably find another current D3 coach to take over.
But, the search will be a long and hard one, it will involve deep evaluations.
To think otherwise ... that's what's absurd!
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Re: UMaine men 1-11 @ Columbia 1-10 on 12/30/17

Postby basketball_guy » Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:01 pm

No, Maine needs to hire a Professional Fund raiser. That really is the first thing that needs to be done who will
actually work on contacts Out of State. That really is the first thing they should be doing before even bringing in
a new Coach.

I am not going to address the financials woes of the the University of Maine or the education issue. I don't need
advice from you on what is and what is not the issue. I am looking at the Athletic department issues in terms of funding and YES THEY DO NEED A PROFESSIONAL FUND RAISER.

They need to get some Corporate sponsorships. That can be done even out of State. One that comes to mind is
the Coca Cola Corporation in Atlanta. These guys work these contacts all the time. But UMAINE needs to discuss
this with some Professional fundraisers. They don't need my two cents worth on that. It is going to require some work on their part.

http://www.case.org/Conferences_and_Training/FRA18.html

Fundraising for Athletics Pre-conference Workshop
April 25, 2018
Westin Downtown Denver
Denver, Colo., United States

https://www.gofundme.com/sports-fundraising

https://www.convergentnonprofit.com/lan ... gLAD_D_BwE

I suggest you read this article.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ccap/2014/ ... 626ea17afd


You obviously have some inner knowledge of UMAINES. But let me say this, the changes that are needed are needed in forward thinking within the Athletic Department itself. Changes need to be made and that is not an easy thing to do. But this kind of thing has got to be done. It is obvjous the issues with the basketball program are systemic in terms of funding.
It requires Innovative thinking and some changes are necessary. Obviously the current model is not working.

You act as though Bob and I are just elder statesman who know nothing. I have to laugh. I played for the fifth
rated Junior College at that time before I came to UMAINE. We were rated 5th in the Nation at the time. I was
born in Maine but played down in New York. I hardly need any advice from you. We won our first 15 in a row and
ended up the in the Quarter finals of the JUCO tournament. We went 23-5. I was never on a College basketball
that lost more than they won and that includes the 9 games I was on the JV team at Maine before they cut the
program.

No I disagree. More needs to be done and the first issue is changing the funding model at Maine. The second
is changing this Coach. I will leave it at that for now.
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