CIM's BLOG: UMaine basketball teams week break for exams

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Re: CIM's BLOG:Why do UMaine BB teams count non D-1 game sta

Postby turkeyman » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:44 pm

Cim, now you find six structures, and still put UMFK in the seventh, even though it is in NAIA II. Dual memberships are allowed. Thus, Fort Kent is both NAIA II and USCAA. Presque Isle is both NCAA DIII and USCAA. USCAA calls itself an organization of very small four-year schools and junior colleges. Other USCAA members in Maine are Augusta, Machias and Unity. Of those, Fort Kent is the only NAIA in the state, I believe, and Presque Isle is NCAA D III independent. There is a mechanism now for the independents to play off to qualify for the DIII tournament, but I'm not familiar with how it works. All the other DIII schools in Maine are in conferences (NAC, NESCAC, GNAC).

There is still the organization of religious schools (Bluff City, etc.) but many of them also overlap with NAIA or NCAA DIII. I can't think of its name.

My point in bringing up the example of Dick Barnett going to the NBA from the NAIA was that you can't place the entire group of NAIA schools beneath the entire group of NCAA DIII. There is a lot of overlap. Sheridan Hoops lists 16 D II and DIII players -- Deaven George, Jack Sikma, Terry Porter, Brad Stevens were all DIII -- who made the NBA. NAIA lists 81 players (Elgin Baylor, Dick Barnett, Willis Reed, Dennis Rodman among them) who have made the NBA. I believe Dunbar got this right. You can't compare the organizations because of differences in rules, etc. If you insist on comparing, I believe you must conclude that the best of NAIA II and NCAA DIII are often comparable. It may be that the worst of NAIA is well below the worst of DIII. But that still doesn't mean the entire classification is poorer than NCAA DIII.

As a matter of fact, Bates, Bowdoin and Colby do schedule UMF. In wbb, the Bobcats play at the Beavers Jan. 16. The Beavers play at Bowdoin Dec. 6, and the Beavers play at Colby Feb. 6. All four schools are Div. III in the NCAA. And Colby did play Maine at the Cross Center in 2015. It was no prettier than last night against UMFK. I saw UMF beat Bowdoin when Steph Pemper was coaching at Bowdoin and Karen Sirois and Kari Simpson were playing for UMF. These three matchups are long-standing.

DI teams are permitted to play two or three exhibition games in which nothing counts except maybe the cash paid for tickets. For several years, UNB came over from Fredericton to play Maine, and it was a good matchup. The teams in the Atlantic provinces may compare to high DII in this country. Their season starts much earlier, so the UNB team that came here had several games under its belt. Go farther back, and you'll find Maine playing two exhibition games, usually a DII from Mass., like Stonehill, and a team from Athletes in Action or FCA, made up of recent grads. Those exhibitions let the lower-division teams see how the other half lives, so to speak, and offer the occasional opportunity to upset a DI team, as UMFK did in mbb last year at Bangor. Think of all those Vanguard kids who can tell their grandchildren that they played against UConn. By then, Geno will have about 3,000 wins.

Bob Neal
New Sharon
Last edited by turkeyman on Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CIM's BLOG:Why do UMaine BB teams count non D-1 game sta

Postby bcbc55 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:20 pm

turkeyman wrote:Cim, now you find six structures, and still put UMFK in the seventh, even though it is in NAIA II. Dual membership are allowed. Thus, Fort Kent is both NAIA II and USCAA. Presque Isle is both NCAA DIII and USCAA. USCAA calls itself an organization of very small four-year schools and junior colleges. Other USCAA members in Maine are Augusta, Machias and Unity. Of those, Fort Kent is the only NAIA in the state, I believe, and Presque Isle is NCAA D III independent. There is a mechanism now for the independents to play off to qualify for the DIII tournament, but I'm not familiar with how it works. All the other DIII schools in Maine are in conferences (NAC, NESCAC, GNAC).

There is still the organization of religious schools (Bluff City, etc.) but many of them also overlap with NAIA or NCAA DIII. I can't think of its name.

My point in bringing up the example of Dick Barnett going to the NBA from the NAIA was that you can't place the entire group of NAIA schools beneath the entire group of NCAA DIII. There is a lot of overlap. Sheridan Hoops lists 16 D II and DIII players -- Deaven George, Jack Sikma, Terry Porter, Brad Stevens were all DIII -- who made the NBA. NAIA lists 81 players (Elgin Baylor, Dick Barnett, Willis Reed, Dennis Rodman among them) who have made the NBA. I believe Dunbar got this right. You can't compare the organizations because of differences in rules, etc. If you insist on comparing, I believe you must conclude that the best of NAIA II and NCAA DIII are often comparable. It may be that the worst of NAIA is well below the worst of DIII. But that still doesn't mean the entire classification is poorer than NCAA DIII.

As a matter of fact, Bates, Bowdoin and Colby do schedule UMF. In wbb, the Bobcats play at the Beavers Jan. 16. The Beavers play at Bowdoin Dec. 6, and the Beavers play at Colby Feb. 6. All four schools are Div. III in the NCAA. And Colby did play Maine at the Cross Center in 2015. It was no prettier than last night against UMFK. I saw UMF beat Bowdoin when Steph Pemper was coaching at Bowdoin and Karen Sirois and Kari Simpson were playing for UMF. These three matchups are long-standing.

DI teams are permitted to play two or three exhibition games in which nothing counts except maybe the cash paid for tickets. For several years, UNB came over from Fredericton to play Maine, and it was a good matchup. The teams in the Atlantic provinces may compare to high DII in this country. Their season starts much earlier, so the UNB team that came here had several games under its belt. Go farther back, and you'll find Maine playing two exhibition games, usually a DII from Mass., like Stonehill, and a team from Athletes in Action or FCA, made up of recent grads. Those exhibitions let the lower-division teams see how the other half lives, so to speak, and offer the occasional opportunity to upset a DI team, as UMFK did in mbb last year at Bangor. Think of all those Vanguard kids who can tell their grandchildren that they played against UConn. By then, Geno will have about 3,000 wins.

Bob Neal
New Sharon


Bob: I agree with all of your post entirely. The Maine men and probably the Maine women would not win the NAIA Division 1 National Championship the past 10 years and maybe even longer.

UMFK beat the Maine men at the "PIT" 85-80. This was just after Maine had beaten Husson at the Cross Insurance Center by 29. The Husson beat UMFK at Husson in the next game. So all 3 teams were 1-1 in a round robin tourney wirhin about a week's time.

Much bigger deal to be able to say you played Connecticut play against Connecticut women then the Maine women.

When I played at Husson in the 50's the University of New Brunswick was in the Northeast College Conference. We played them and they had the longest court I ever played on it was 106 feet long. 12 feet longer then a college court of 94 feet. It was called either the Lord Beaverbrook or Lady Beaverbrook Gymnasium.

The Maine men when they were in the olde Yankee conference with Connecticut, Massachusetts, RI, Vermont and UNH which was a tougher conference competitive wise than America East Conference today. Maine men used to play Bates, Bowdoin and Colby home and away in what was called the "State Series". Those D-3 teams competed very well against Maine. Also played those 3 teams in Football and Baseball State Series".

Thanks for the post.

CIM
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Re: CIM's BLOG: Some UMaine men BB positives vs. GT

Postby bcbc55 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:03 pm

Although the UMaine men lost to Georgetown last nite 76-55 there were some positives. Maine held GT to 9 points under their 85 points per game with 76, held GT the nation's 4th place D-1 3 point shooting percentage of 47% to just 4 for 18 for 22%. Had 5 blocks to GT's 4 and Georgetown had the definite size advantage. Maine's bench outscored GT 32 to 19.

Maine held their own on the boards against the much bigger Hoyas with 35 to GT's 36. Each had 23 defensive rebounds and Maine had 12 offensive boards to GT's 13.

The play of Maine red-shirt junior point guard Araon Calixe with 17 points on 6-9 from the floor shooting as 4 of his hoops were driving layups against the much bigger Hoyas. He had 5 rebounds, only 2 turnovers, and 1 assist.

Ilker Er played well led Maine in rebounds with 6 along with 13 points.

Both Calixe and Er are coming off season ending injuries from last season, where Calixe only played in the first 5 games and Er the first 11.

Both are also the only Bears players averaging double figures. Calixe 15 and Er 10.

With the cut off for red-shirting an injury is 7 games so Er is a senior.
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Re: CIM's BLOG: Some positives for UMaine mens BB team in lo

Postby basketball_guy » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:49 am

Alabama Crimson Tide have now moved up to 24th in the Nation. Now 6-1 on the season.

A team currently that Bob Simon was primarily responsible for recruiting two years back as

recruiting coordinator for Alabama.

I hope that point is not lost on the UMAINE Athletic Department. Basketball is all about recruiting.

Maine also is playing better lately in the last three games.
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Re: CIM's BLOG: Some positives for UMaine women's BB team in

Postby bcbc55 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:20 pm

Despite losing to 8th ranked Ohio State women's basketball team 83-70 the UMaine women had some good positives to take away from the loss.

First, Maine held Ohio State to 7 points below their season average of 90 points per game with 83.

They also held Mitchell to 11 points and she was averaging 27 ppg going into the Maine game. She is rated as one of the best D-1 players in the country.

Maine had career games out of two starters. Julie Brosseau, the sophomore guard from Canada poured in a career high 29 points and tied the record for 3 pointers made in a game with 7. She was 7 for 12 from beyond the arc.

Tanesha Sutton the junior transfer from Duqense had a career high 18 points in having another double double with 11 rebounds.

Maine shot an outstanding 40% from 3 point land on 14 for 35. They held Ohio State to just 26% from beyond the arc.

The positives still did not outweigh the negatives in the loss.

First, Maine took 54.7 percent of their FGA's as 3 pointers on 35 3 point attempts out of 64 FGA's in the game.

Maine was outscored in the paint 46 to 20. Maine post players (Post starter Wadling 13 minutes and her sub Johnson 25 minutes) only scored 4 points between them out of the 70 Maine scored and they only took 3 shots between them out of the 64 attempted field goals taken by Maine.

Maine still continues to rely way too much on 3 point shooting as they prefer to "live by the three" instead of going instead for higher percentage shots.

Also, by going inside more they will force double teams on the post player which will give them a better inside-outside game to get more open 3 point looks especially if the are going to "live and die by the three".

Maine also by not going inside hardly at all they only got to the foul line for 3 shots for the entire game.

So Maine's real positive of shooting 14 of 35 (40%) for 3's was also a negative as they only scored 20 points in the paint and where outscored there 46 to 20 even though Maine outscored Ohio State 42 to 21 on 3 pointers, Maine got outscored from the foul line 2 to 10 in total Maine was outscored by a total of 28 to 21 (20 in the paint and 8 from the line) in each teams biggest positives today.

Brosseau played 37 minutes, Sutton 38 minutes and Millan 37 minutes as Maine's bench only played a total of 24 minutes and only scored 2 points in the game as 3 players Fogharty, Tapley and Williams did not get any playing time in a game that Maine trailed 80 to 60 late in the game and Ohio State had put in their subs. Maine still had some starters in, when cutting the 20 point margin down to a final 13 point loss.

So overall even though there were more negatives in the loss the positive play of Brosseau, Sutton and Millan who scored 60 of Maine's 70 points was impressive. But four of Ohio States players reached double figures by scoring 66 points of their 83.
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Re: CIM's BLOG: Some positives for Maine women's BB team in

Postby fafan » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:05 pm

Wanted to get your thoughts on this article which says the women need to shoot more 3's. How does this make you feel Coach Cim ;)
Wish people would acknowledge the opponent in the fact that Maine will not get these looks when they travel to Duke, Miss St. or BC.

http://bangordailynews.com/2017/12/06/s ... /comments/
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Re: CIM's BLOG: Some positives for Maine women's BB team in

Postby mainejeff » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:13 pm

Duke is beatable & BC sucks. Forget about MSU.

The problem for Maine is that they don't have any post presence. The good news is that Maine rebounds pretty well as a team....but if they cold from outside... :( :( :(
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Re: CIM's BLOG: Some positives for Maine women's BB team in

Postby bcbc55 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:16 pm

fafan wrote:Wanted to get your thoughts on this article which says the women need to shoot more 3's. How does this make you feel Coach Cim ;)
Wish people would acknowledge the opponent in the fact that Maine will not get these looks when they travel to Duke, Miss St. or BC.

http://bangordailynews.com/2017/12/06/s ... /comments/


fafan: Basketball wise it is not my philosophy unless you go inside first and then get open threes on the kick out pass.

Maine's 4 post players, Wadling, Johnson, Barra and Williams have to call a time out on the offensive end to see if the ball is still round from passes to them on the block.

In fact, the offense they are running has no post up on the block game at all because the posts are always at the high post at the elbow screening for the guards or passing to the guards when they get the ball at the top of the foul circle as they look for the guards coming off screens for 3 point looks. IF THEY WOULD CUT TO THE BLOCK AND POST UP ON THE BLOCK IF THERE IS NO 3 POINT ATTEMPT AT THE WING THEY PASSED TO AT LEAST THEY WOULD POST UP ON THE BLOCK. ALSO HARD TO DOUBLE TEAM A POST PLAYER WHEN THEY ARE ON THE MOVE INSTEAD OF JUST BEING ON THE BLOCK. IF THEY HAD THAT IN THIS 3 POINT GUARD ORIENTED OFFENSE THAT WOULD GIVE THEM A POST UP ON THE BLOCK FOR THE INSIDE-OUTSIDE GAME THEY NEED TO GET OPEN 3 POINT LOOKS.

Actually, Maine's best skilled post up on the block player is Tanesha Sutton at 5'10", but she does not post up much because she is looking for a 3 or to penetrate off the dribble.

I don't even want to get into their post defense as it is almost none existent.

If Maine wants to "live by the 3 then they will die by the three". when they play good defensive teams, especially when the have no inside-outside game to get open threes it all comes from perimeter passing or off the dribble, they don't even use much dribble penetration and kick outs to get open threes. They won't get the looks they are getting now against good defensive teams and there will also be better prepared teams in America East games because of more scouting.

Maine is shooting 34.6% from the 3 point line on 84 of 243.

They are taking 40% of their FGA's as 3's on 251 of 576.

ONLY shooting 63.7% from the line and 43.8% from the floor on 251-576. They are shooting 50% on 2 point shooting on
167-333.

Maine's 4 post players have taken 83 FGA's out of the 576 attempts for just 14.4%. They only have 34 of the 161 of the assists for only 21.3%. They have only shot 20% on 20 of 97 foul shots. This shows that they are not being used enough and that Maine does not have much of an inside game let alone an inside-outside game. More proof of no post game is that they have only taken 97 foul shots as a team.

In their 4 losses 3 pt shooting % they are 34 of 107...3-23, 11-26, 6-23 and 14-35 for 31.6%.

In the 5 wins the 3 point shooting 2 against non-D-1 teams 8-29 and 16-33 for 24 of 62 for 39% and against 3 D-1 teams they are 26 for 74 they are 37.15. Combined they are 50 for 136 for 36.9% in the 5 wins.

Just my opinion, and like noses everyone has an opinion. However, I like to back my opinions up with facts and stats are facts.

So it is, "Different basketball strokes for different basketball folks" or "What floats UMaine women's 3 point boat doesn't float my basketball boat".

As far as the article that you were referring to in the BDN, guess it tells the whole story about what to expect from the UMaine women's team offensively for the rest of the season. All I can say is "if you live by the 3, you have a good chance to die by the 3", and I hope that is not in an America East Tournament game.
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Re: CIM's BLOG: Maine women have some real positi in win ove

Postby bcbc55 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:33 pm

A lot of real positives in the UMaine's win over Dartmouth today.

1. Maine out scored Dartmouth in the paint 30 to 12.
2. All Maine starters scored all the 64 points and had 4 players in double figures and 1 with 9 points.
3. Maine's defense in the 4th quarter was stellar out scoring Dartmouth 15 to 4
4. Nice to see that with Millan and Brosseau having sub par days offensively that Wadling and Rossignol picked up the slack with with career scoring games
5. Wadling getting 14 field goal attempts
6. Sutton with another excellent all around game
7. Being able to shoot 36.4% against Dartmouth's nationally 6th ranked 3 point defense average of 22.6%.
8. Being up 12 in first half and then trailing by 3 in second half and then coming back to win by 13 points.
9. Holding Dartmouth to just 25% from 3 point land on 6 of 24 3 attempts.
10. Only allowing Dartmouth only 12 points scored in the
paint.
11.Only taking 19 of their 57 FGA's as 3 point attempts for just 33.3%.

Best all around game of the season so far. Good way to go into next Sunday's next game on the road at highly ranked Mississippi State at 2:00pm.

Would rate Maine on a scale of 1 to 10 with ten being the highest for this game a NINE..............................TEEN, they played that well against a good higher ranked team then Maine was going into the game and was 6-1 befor the game.
Last edited by bcbc55 on Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: CIM's BLOG: UMaine women BB real positives in win over D

Postby MaineBBFan99 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:44 pm

Thanks for the recap, bcbc. Overall, a great road win for the Black Bears with contributions from several players - definitely nice to see Wadling attack the hoop so well and Parise knock down four 3's.

I just have a few corrections to your recap:

Item 2) - 4 players were in double figures, not 54 :)
Item 7) - Maine shot 7-19 (36.8% not 34.6%) from 3-point range.
Item 8) - I think Maine's largest deficit in the second half was 3 points, not 5 points.

Item 11) - The low percentage of 3-point shots taken is not in and of itself a positive. I think we need to face the reality that, on the offensive end, the strength of this team is its guard play and perimeter shooting. It just doesn't make much sense to try and achieve some arbitrary ratio of 3 point attempts to total field goal attempts, particularly when our most consistent offensive threats have been from the outside. I appreciate the sentiment that there is a higher variance in a team's scoring when they rely heavily on 3-point shots, and that could be an issue in a single elimination tournament (like the America East tournament). But bottom line, you have to play to your strengths and, right now, that is Maine's perimeter shooting.
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