Division 3

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Division 3

Postby Linguist » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:05 am

Here is a nugget to chew on for you.

Let's make this a 5-to-7 year plan for the Athletic Department with really one topic involved - Should the University of Maine drop ALL sports to Division 3?

In this scenario, no sports stay D1. Not football, not hockey, not basketball, not baseball, nothing, everything goes Division 3, non scholarship, non revenue generating. Maine now competes with Husson, MMA, USM, etc.

Would you go to more games? Would this be a better move for UMaine athletics?

Before you think this is too far fetched, there are some rumblings on campus that a group of professors are pushing the President for this move.
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Re: Division 3

Postby turkeyman » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:22 pm

TAL, et al, dumb as this idea seems to us fans, if the faculty is pushing it, beware. About 40 years ago, the faculty Senate used its power to shorten the semester to 14 weeks from 15. That meant UMaine kids got 7 percent less class time than they had had, and 13 percent less than in the traditional 16-week semester. And, the faculty took no pay cut when its teaching load was shortened.

One professor, the late and revered Brooks Hamilton, was so angered that he scheduled his three exams each semester at night, which offset the lost classroom time. I don't know if UMaine's faculty has more power than most, but it has flexed some muscle over the years. No one responded to my post on the AD-for-a-month thread, but I suggested then that an AD should begin the process of looking at what UMaine and athletics can do to or for each other. If some faculty are looking to upset the applecart, a bit of pre-emptive blue-skying may be in order.

Nationally, the trend is the opposite. South Dakota, South Dakota State, North Dakota, North Dakota State and others have come up to D-I from D-II in the past 15 or so years, from about 320 to 349 in wbb, for example. A few, such as Alaska, are D-I for some sports (hockey, gymnastics, skiing) and D-II for everything else. Several D-II schools are D-I for hockey (Bentley, AIC, Merrimack, etc.). A couple of D-I schools have moved down, notably Birmingham Southern, which was overmatched no matter what conference it chose in D-I. U of New Orleans announced it would drop to D-III, but it still plays in D-I. Don't know if it dropped the idea.

As to what this would do for the university, my answer is not a damned thing. We can argue until the Turkeys come home as to whether sports draws money to campus or sucks money from academics. Nationally, studies have shown that athletics often brings in more money than it spends. At Vandy, where I attended grad school, the university has steadfastly stayed not only in D-I -- Vandy's undergrad enrollment is smaller than UMaine's -- but in the Southeastern Conference. Talk about masochism. But chancellor after chancellor has insisted that Vandy gains financially from competing at D-I. (Yeah, I was at Vandy the last time the Commodores beat 'Bama in football, 14-10 in 1969. The 'Dores rolled the Tide, and it was party night in Nashville!)

You can't tie it down tightly enough to enter in a ledger book (or a spreadsheet these days?) just exactly what UMaine gains and loses by competing at the D-I level. But you can guarantee that if it dropped to D-III, it would not bring in more than a few bucks. Most D-III schools in Maine charge no admission, get no TV money. USM and UNE get a couple of bucks for basketball games. So, maybe $500 a game. Not enough to pay the officials. And the school's public profile would sink below the horizon.

No time or space here to go into many details, but consider this. When Maine gives a basketball scholarship to a kid from Austria or New York, it is logged as a $25,000 to $30,000 expense for out-of-state tuition. But the university does not spend one nickel more to educate that athlete than it does a kid from Baileyville or Westbrook. That is just an accounting step and has no relation to reality. So, if faculty are upset that having wbb players from Sweden, Spain, Israel, Canada, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, California and Massachusetts "costs," say, $200,000 a year, they need to take some basic math and/or accounting courses. Those kids don't cost Maine a penny extra, and they may well bring quite a bit.

Stay at D-I, hire the best people you can get for five-to-10 year stints before they move on and build or rebuild the traditions. Then make the case again and again for what athletics does for the university financially and culturally in broadening diversity on campus. That may quiet those faculty who want to downgrade athletics.

Bob Neal
New Sharon
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Re: Division 3

Postby mainejeff » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:41 pm

No one is attending school in (B)Orono, Maine without a D-1 athletic program. That might sound like a sports-crazed person talking, but there is NOTHING to like about the school or location...seriously. :|

It would definitely help the other campuses though...Portland/Gorham & Farmington are attractive places comparatively. Faculty better be careful what they wish for!

Personally, my interest in UM athletics is hanging on by a thread...that's saying something! If they are losing a "fanatic" that lives within an hour of campus and has followed the athletic prohram for 3 decades then they are in trouble! Football & women's basketball are the only teams that I put any effort or $$$ into now.

Obvioisly the faculty smells blood in the water. :|
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Re: Division 3

Postby Blind Zebra » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:23 am

If the faculty is suggesting a drop to D3 for UMaine, many of these folks would be cutting their own throats. The drop to D3 would hinder enrollment and ultimately impact the number of faculty needed to operate. There are hundreds of athletes, coaches and faculty associated with UMaine's D1 athletic department. The flagship would become less and less attractive to students in SO New England and Southern Maine. would be the first step in shifting the Flagship to USM. I could actually see that happening at some point in the future. Selfishly I hope it never happens. I live 13 minutes from the Orono campus and 3 minutes from the Cross Center. In the Bangor area it would create quite a stir and on the sports front a heated D3 rivalry with Husson.
The University should look into cutting some of the programs and investing in others. Dropping women's hockey makes sense and maybe cut the men's swimming and track programs. Try to fix men's hockey. The fan base would return if they had a new facility and a young/high energy and aggressive coach.
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Re: Division 3

Postby BearDownBears » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:10 am

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Hell NO
Not even worth talking about
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Re: Division 3

Postby fafan » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:22 am

Blind Zebra wrote:If the faculty is suggesting a drop to D3 for UMaine, many of these folks would be cutting their own throats. The drop to D3 would hinder enrollment and ultimately impact the number of faculty needed to operate. There are hundreds of athletes, coaches and faculty associated with UMaine's D1 athletic department. The flagship would become less and less attractive to students in SO New England and Southern Maine. would be the first step in shifting the Flagship to USM. I could actually see that happening at some point in the future. Selfishly I hope it never happens. I live 13 minutes from the Orono campus and 3 minutes from the Cross Center. In the Bangor area it would create quite a stir and on the sports front a heated D3 rivalry with Husson.
The University should look into cutting some of the programs and investing in others. Dropping women's hockey makes sense and maybe cut the men's swimming and track programs. Try to fix men's hockey. The fan base would return if they had a new facility and a young/high energy and aggressive coach.


I am a graduate of USM and have never ever been to a USM sporting event since graduation. I have nothing against D3 athletics but they certainly do not draw fans to their sporting events like D1 athletics. I agree with BZ that the enrollment of Orono would drop dramatically and any professor that thought this was a cure to fix financial problems would find pretty quickly that it would hurt more than help.

I think this post is just away to stir the pot although looking at all the different thletic programs and making some cuts and additions seems worthy of a study.
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Re: Division 3

Postby Lwyrup » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:33 pm

Cash is King, no more of this save a dime and in the long run cost yourself a quarter !

Either put the cash up fund the programs, so Maine is all in or cut the losses and get out.

This includes recruiting coaches who can recruit , provide facilities that promote a winning culture, that means $300K a year for the lesser sports and $500-750 K a year for the higher profile sports , women's BB , men's BB , Men's Ice hockey., and kiss women's ice hockey good by along with baseball unless your going to get an inside stadium to play in.
Add women's and men's lacrosse, plus women's VB.
Doesn't North Dakota have an inside stadium ? In our climate without the facilities then kiss the outdoor sports goodbye!

So you big talkers for Maine athletics put your Money where your mouth is, tell the legislature to fund it. Along with a governor who brags how much money he didn't spend , Spend it on education at the university level and the sports will be there.
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Re: Division 3

Postby Lwyrup » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:36 pm

Falange,
Send anything you want to kill to a committee to study it !
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Re: Division 3

Postby TAL1957 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:36 pm

Lwyrup wrote:Falange,
Send anything you want to kill to a committee to study it !
Okay. I highly recommend we now send an analysis of any such suggestion to a committee.

And who really gives a cow fart about what faculty think or know (pretty much nothing) about UMaine and/or college athletics in general, with a few rare exceptions. The over-privledged and over-compensated and over-rated faculty will ALWAYS complain and whine about whatever level of athletics are supported. They are a bunch of spoiled, egotistical academia elitists, with a few commendable exceptions. IMHO of course. :o :roll: :lol: :lol:

On the other hand, I seriously question taking this very seriously just becuz of an off-handed remark on here about so-called "rumblings on campus", to support the possible legitimacy of a pretty foolish "possibility", unsupported by any actual sources or other corroboration. Great example of how rumors get started, and now all of a sudden it's an actual fact ???? Hmmmm ....... :roll: :roll:
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