No more T's on Dunks Sports Chowdah 2/22

post info & talk all things boys basketball....

Re: No more T's on Dunks Sports Chowdah 2/22

Postby reffan » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:38 pm

Great article in the PPH....bravo to Steve Craig

good quotes from the Coach at Maine and reffan's favorite coach...Phil Conley

Can't be good news for Rutherford....he broke Webb's First Commandment......"Thou shall not use the Lord, thy God (Webb) 's name in vain."

Webb can not punish him because he does not do enough games to qualify of his tournament....but Webb has his tentacles on every board.....his evil side kick, Fuller......will be ordered to silence and if necessary put Rudy in the ground...

sort of the like the Godfather movies.... the Don (Webb) just calls in Tom and Sonny and then they give the contract out to Clemenza or Tesio.....so maybe R. Johnson (clemenza) will be given the contract???

But Fuller is more like Fredo.....

But Rudy hits the nail on the head......the zebra's know what their boss wants called...and if called they get rewarded! Dont blame the zebras...just want to move on! more money in their pockets and more glory!!!

*Every ref who called a T on a dunk got a Regional final.....and the ref that T'd up the Deering Coach....Coach Wingnut.....worked every day after that...including a regional final!


enough said!
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Re: No more T's on Dunks Sports Chowdah 2/22

Postby wmtwsportsprod » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:24 pm

Tom Nolette wrote:We've been talking about the effects of peter on basketball for decades..Now that every one can pig-pile on with social media, perhaps we'll see a change ..

I find it interesting that coaches, media speak up now when this has been going on and complained about heavily for past 20 years .. Why this year.. where were coaches and media for past 20 years .. oh , I know...../


whats that suppossed to mean?
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Re: No more T's on Dunks Sports Chowdah 2/22

Postby bcbc55 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:51 pm

[quote="frankj"]Well, from what I saw in the Northern Maine tournament it may be changing already. In the games I watched there were probably 6 or so dunks and NO technicals.
I enjoy watching teams that play as teams and care more about TEAM success than individual success; that certainly is "old school"; however, it is effective/ winning basketball. People may pile on CIM and the rest of us, but,there is 0% doubt in my mind that if CIM were coaching a team of less or at least equal talent in today's game, his team would win at a higher % of the time than when he coached 20 years ago. However, today, people are more interested in the high flying stuff because why...it is now an individual-based game. I could care less, as a coach, if someone has 2 points from a dunk or a nice lay-in off the square.
To each his own; I still like watching games that matter and the excitement of tournament basketball!

Frank: Thanks for the very kind words. You are one of a very few that would believe that it would be easier to win today with less talent if coaches employed the coaching methods to take a team that plays from the shoulders up and not the shoulders down which is the so called athletic game of today that many seem to take to from watching D-1 basketball on the TV from players, to coaches, to officials, to fans, to parents, etc.

Many think the high school game should be for entertainment instead of "Teaching the life lessons that cannot be taught or learned in the academic classrooms" If peeople want to watch entertaining basketball they should watch the Harlem Globetrotters, D-1 college basketball or the NBA (Not Basketball Anymore or Nothing But Athletes) not high school basketball.

I always said "a good fast team can't make a good slow team go fast, but a good slow team can make a good fast team go slow".

I would add that the good fast team is usually one that plays the game from the shoulders down and uses what athleticism it has first and a good slow team is usually one that plays the game from the shoulders up using their brains first.

I always thought that basketball was a 6 inch game. 6 inches up from your adam's apple to your brain and 6 inches down from your adam's apple to your heart and anything below your heart your core, legs and feet were just athleticism so that is why we played the game the way we did.

Teams with lesser talent, in order to compete successfully against more talented opponents must be able to even the game by taking away the athleticism of the more talented team. I have not seen that even attempted much today and when they do it is still left in the hands and minds of the players not the system and the coach. Thus, you do not see less talented teams upsetting more athletically inclined teams very often today.

Just a case of "Different basketball strokes for different basketball folks" or "What floats others basketball boats doesn't float my basketball boat".

I agree Frank,it would be easier to employ the playing from the shoulders up game today more successfully because few if any teams do it and if they do they do not do it the right way in my way of thinking things basketball wise.

Playing from the shoulders down using just athletic skills leads to lower basketball IQ's which leads to poorer basketball decision making skills, which leads to poorer shot selection, more player control fouls (I call hem player-out-of-control-fouls now as there are so many) and more defensive fouls and increased turnovers.

Playing from the shoulders up which produces higher basketball IQ's which leads to better basketball decision making skills that leads to good high percentage shot selection, fewer POOCF and defensive fouls and fewer turnovers.

Today's game has most of the team's players deciding who shoots, when they shoot and where they shoot from when it should be the offensive set system that determines who shoots, when they shoot and where they shoot in other the words the coach decides who shoots, when they, and where they shoot from.

As, you so eloquently stated in your above post we are "old school" that appreciates team play over individual entertainment play. To that I couldn't agree more.

Just our basketball opinions and like noses every basketball person has one be it a player, coach, official, fan, parent, relative, observer, etc. and so on.

Again, thanks for the kind, supportive and positive basketball support.
Last edited by bcbc55 on Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No more T's on Dunks Sports Chowdah 2/22

Postby refrider » Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:10 pm

What a ridiculous diatribe. Players can be both cerebral and athletic. You make it sound like it has t be one or the other. The special players indeed have both attributes. That is what makes them great. In the history of Maine HS basketball there have only been a handful of great players compared to the rest of the country. We are too small comparatively speaking. But we can have players that compared to our own are considered great. When you coached Cim, we had football in the fall, basketball in winter and baseball in spring. The same players played most of the sports and they were better all around athletes. Now with so many choices, including not playing sports at all because of video games, today's players are athletically dumb. And coaches over coach during games. Probably out of necessity but it you cant play well at anything trying to listen to the coach at the same moment you are playing. Throw in coaches that want kids to specialize and you create players that don't really know how to think on their feet. Great coaches coach during practice and adjust strategies during games. But they can't play for the kids!
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Re: No more T's on Dunks Sports Chowdah 2/22

Postby bcbc55 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:36 pm

refrider wrote:What a ridiculous diatribe. Players can be both cerebral and athletic. You make it sound like it has t be one or the other. The special players indeed have both attributes. That is what makes them great. In the history of Maine HS basketball there have only been a handful of great players compared to the rest of the country. We are too small comparatively speaking. But we can have players that compared to our own are considered great. When you coached Cim, we had football in the fall, basketball in winter and baseball in spring. The same players played most of the sports and they were better all around athletes. Now with so many choices, including not playing sports at all because of video games, today's players are athletically dumb. And coaches over coach during games. Probably out of necessity but it you cant play well at anything trying to listen to the coach at the same moment you are playing. Throw in coaches that want kids to specialize and you create players that don't really know how to think on their feet. Great coaches coach during practice and adjust strategies during games. But they can't play for the kids!


refrider:

I agree with your all of your insightful, informative, timely, relevant and interesting post above if you understand that I was only referring to Maine high school basketball players as you were in your post above. So why would that make my post a ridiculous "diatribe?"

Athletes certainly can be cerebral and athletic and the best basketball players are the ones that have both and think first cerebrally and act second athletically. Many, however act first and think second and those are the ones that I don't think are the better basketball players at any level and especially here at the Maine high school level.

I always loved having football players on my teams as they were great in being able to carry of their assignments because ho they had to in football and it was a great carry over to basketball.

Today's Maine high school basketball players maybe be a little more athletic but they are not as smart basketball wise as the players from the past.

However, if I had to make a choice to coach, I would rather have a team of basketball players playing basketball from the shoulders up then a team made up of athletes trying to play basketball from the shoulders down.

I was very fortunate over the years to have players that were very coachable, not real athletically skilled, but were basketball players playing basketball from the shoulders up which produced high Basketball IQ's which allowed them to make above average basketball making decisions. These players beat a lot of teams that were more athletic then they were.

in fact, even won a few state championships with those those of players that made up those types of basketball teams that played the game from the shoulders up, thought first and acted second.

Now if this post is another "ridiculous diatribe" then so be it. But, "that's my story and I'm sticking to it".
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Re: No more T's on Dunks Sports Chowdah 2/22

Postby refrider » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:21 pm

Well that is why HS basketball is fun. With few exceptions coaches don't get to choose. The best coaches use the talent they have. They don't try to make the players something that they aren't!!!
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Re: No more T's on Dunks Sports Chowdah 2/22

Postby nissan77 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:12 pm

bcbc55 wrote:
frankj wrote:Well, from what I saw in the Northern Maine tournament it may be changing already. In the games I watched there were probably 6 or so dunks and NO technicals.
I enjoy watching teams that play as teams and care more about TEAM success than individual success; that certainly is "old school"; however, it is effective/ winning basketball. People may pile on CIM and the rest of us, but,there is 0% doubt in my mind that if CIM were coaching a team of less or at least equal talent in today's game, his team would win at a higher % of the time than when he coached 20 years ago. However, today, people are more interested in the high flying stuff because why...it is now an individual-based game. I could care less, as a coach, if someone has 2 points from a dunk or a nice lay-in off the square.
To each his own; I still like watching games that matter and the excitement of tournament basketball!

Frank: Thanks for the very kind words. You are one of a very few that would believe that it would be easier to win today with less talent if coaches employed the coaching methods to take a team that plays from the shoulders up and not the shoulders down which is the so called athletic game of today that many seem to take to from watching D-1 basketball on the TV from players, to coaches, to officials, to fans, to parents, etc.

Many think the high school game should be for entertainment instead of "Teaching the life lessons that cannot be taught or learned in the academic classrooms" If peeople want to watch entertaining basketball they should watch the Harlem Globetrotters, D-1 college basketball or the NBA (Not Basketball Anymore or Nothing But Athletes) not high school basketball.

I always said "a good fast team can't make a good slow team go fast, but a good slow team can make a good fast team go slow".

I would add that the good fast team is usually one that plays the game from the shoulders down and uses what athleticism it has first and a good slow team is usually one that plays the game from the shoulders up using their brains first.

I always thought that basketball was a 6 inch game. 6 inches up from your adam's apple to your brain and 6 inches down from your adam's apple to your heart and anything below your heart your core, legs and feet were just athleticism so that is why we played the game the way we did.

Teams with lesser talent, in order to compete successfully against more talented opponents must be able to even the game by taking away the athleticism of the more talented team. I have not seen that even attempted much today and when they do it is still left in the hands and minds of the players not the system and the coach. Thus, you do not see less talented teams upsetting more athletically inclined teams very often today.

Just a case of "Different basketball strokes for different basketball folks" or "What floats others basketball boats doesn't float my basketball boat".

I agree Frank,it would be easier to employ the playing from the shoulders up game today more successfully because few if any teams do it and if they do they do not do it the right way in my way of thinking things basketball wise.

Playing from the shoulders down using just athletic skills leads to lower basketball IQ's which leads to poorer basketball decision making skills, which leads to poorer shot selection, more player control fouls (I call hem player-out-of-control-fouls now as there are so many) and more defensive fouls and increased turnovers.

Playing from the shoulders up which produces higher basketball IQ's which leads to better basketball decision making skills that leads to good high percentage shot selection, fewer POOCF and defensive fouls and fewer turnovers.

Today's game has most of the team's players deciding who shoots, when they shoot and where they shoot from when it should be the offensive set system that determines who shoots, when they shoot and where they shoot in other the words the coach decides who shoots, when they, and where they shoot from.

As, you so eloquently stated in your above post we are "old school" that appreciates team play over individual entertainment play. To that I couldn't agree more.

Just our basketball opinions and like noses every basketball person has one be it a player, coach, official, fan, parent, relative, observer, etc. and so on.

Again, thanks for the kind, supportive and positive basketball support.






look kids, Big Ben....Parliament
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Re: No more T's on Dunks Sports Chowdah 2/22

Postby bcbc55 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:36 pm

refrider wrote:Well that is why HS basketball is fun. With few exceptions coaches don't get to choose. The best coaches use the talent they have. They don't try to make the players something that they aren't!!!


refrider: I agree again and that is what is wrong with high school basketball today many of the coaches that make their teams or should I say ALLOW them to play like D-1 teams. It looks like many want to be "wanta try unsuccessfully to be D-1 players and many of the wanta be D-1 players have coaches who are "wanta be D-1coaches, and their parents and fans want them to be D-1 wanta be's so that they can be a D-1 wanta be parents and fans.

On the girls sides only 4 of the number 1 teams won their tournaments while 9 of the no. 1s won their boys tournaments, that is 13 of 20.

Might think by those results that more coaching is going on on the girls side of things as girls are usually more coachable as some less lower seeded talented teams beat better higher seeded talented teams on the girls tournies.

Not the same on the boys side which I am much more familiar with.

To me the sign of a person who can coach is what they do when they don't have the best horses. Do they give their teams a chance to win or pull an upset.
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Re: No more T's on Dunks Sports Chowdah 2/22

Postby hoops88 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:42 am

Basketball evolves. Personally I think it is ridiculous to think of the excitement of modern athletic basketball as not being "pure" basketball. If I ever get so old as to think that something was better in my day, please put me in my pine box.

I think we can all agree that we don't need to see kids doing chin ups on the rim, but a simple dunk is not going to ruin the game. If you think so, please walk away from the game forever and leave it to the future.

The game needs to appeal to the future. You can either appeal to the demographic that will be gone in 10 years or the demographic that will be here for the next several decades. Where would you put your future?

And I find it hilarious that this satirical "reffan" account on MBR, has turned out to be so on the money over the years. Good job reffan.
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Re: No more T's on Dunks Sports Chowdah 2/22

Postby reffanfan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:59 am

there is no one that has "remained" in the game that I admire more than Reffan.
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