Coaching Records

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Coaching Records

Postby Claude » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:11 am

Opening a can of worms here...

Question:

A lot has been made over the years about players reaching milestones such as 1,000 points and what games exactly counted in this total. Clearly it was determined that it was a school decision and not a statewide uniform one. So some schools counted preseason games, X-mas tourneys, etc. but not all schools did this.

The question I have wondered for some time is what records exactly count in a Coachs' won-loss record? Obviously the regular season and postseason does but do the so called exhibition games?

It is very hard to come up with the exact win totals of many Coach's that are listed on the mabc1 site.
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Re: Coaching Records

Postby bcbc55 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:46 pm

Claude wrote:Opening a can of worms here...

Question:

A lot has been made over the years about players reaching milestones such as 1,000 points and what games exactly counted in this total. Clearly it was determined that it was a school decision and not a statewide uniform one. So some schools counted preseason games, X-mas tourneys, etc. but not all schools did this.

The question I have wondered for some time is what records exactly count in a Coachs' won-loss record? Obviously the regular season and postseason does but do the so called exhibition games?

It is very hard to come up with the exact win totals of many Coach's that are listed on the mabc1 site.


Claude: Excellent question. I don't think you are opening that can. I always counted just MPA games regular season and post season for 1000 point scorers and that is the way I look at coaches won-lost records.

"What is good for the goose (players), definitely should what is good for the gander"(Coaches).
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Re: Coaching Records

Postby foresports » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:40 pm

Regular season and MPA tournament games are the only wins/losses that count. Holiday tournaments, preseason games, pre-tournament scrimmages, etc., do not.
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Re: Coaching Records

Postby bcbc55 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:20 pm

foresports wrote:Regular season and MPA tournament games are the only wins/losses that count. Holiday tournaments, preseason games, pre-tournament scrimmages, etc., do not.


foresports: I agree with you only regular season and post season games should count for 1000 point scorers and coaches wins and losses.

I do not believe that the MPA gets involved with coaches wins and losses and 1000 point scorers individual records.

They post whatever the schools give them and in the past some schools have counted all games for 1000 point scorers and coaches wins-losses.

However, only the 22 or 23 total mpa games should count that being 18 regular season games and 4 or 5 tournament games (possible 1 pelim game, 3 tournament games ans a state final). Very hard to regulate the schools unless they are asked to post the number of games played each season with a minimum of 18 and a maximum of 23 for both.
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Re: Coaching Records

Postby ExpoEddie » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:39 pm

I do believe when New England's were held, those games were included for players and coaches as it was a sanctioned tournament by each state's association. I agree that schools are all over the place with career stats and what games were counted. I had one player closing in on 1000 for her career, the game books from her first year were lost, tossed as the coach did not turn them in.

We had to go to the archives of PPH for each game to verify the totals for each game. Thank goodness they had them, but even then we know scores can be erred from book to PPH. Max games is correctly stated as 22 or 23 each season. Rest is not credible.
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Re: Coaching Records

Postby bcbc55 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:16 am

ExpoEddie wrote:I do believe when New England's were held, those games were included for players and coaches as it was a sanctioned tournament by each state's association. I agree that schools are all over the place with career stats and what games were counted. I had one player closing in on 1000 for her career, the game books from her first year were lost, tossed as the coach did not turn them in.

We had to go to the archives of PPH for each game to verify the totals for each game. Thank goodness they had them, but even then we know scores can be erred from book to PPH. Max games is correctly stated as 22 or 23 each season. Rest is not credible.


EE: Played in the 1955 New Englands. You are correct when they were played they were SPA (State Principals Association) then not mpa sanctioned and counted for points for players and coaches wins.

Played for Bangor and that year we were 15-1 in the regular season, 3-0 Eastern L Tourney, 1-0 in state game beating Morse of Bath and 2-1 in the New Englands. 21-2 overall.

In New England's we beat Burlington, Vt in quarter-finals, lost to Roger Ludlow of Fairfield, Connecticut in semi-finals and beat favorite to win New Englands, Hillhouse of New Haven, Connecticut in a consolation game 66-60 as they were unbeaten until they were upset by Somerville , Massachusetts in the other semi-final game in a major, major upset.

That I believe was the only year that the New England's had a consolation game of the semi-final losers. So we finished 3rd in the New England's in 1955.

Roger Ludlow If I remember correctly lost to Hillhouse twice in the regular season by 20 and also lost to them in Connecticut semi-final by 20 and they ended up New England Champions in 1955.

In fact, if I remember correctly as it was 62 years ago they were not even supposed to be in the New England Schoolboy tournament held in the old Boston Garden in 1955 as Stratton, Connecticut was supposed to be the other Connecticut team as Connecticut and Massachusetts both got 2 teams while Maine, VT, NH and RI each got 1.

Stratton had car accidents returning from the Connecticut loss to Hillshouse in the Connecticut final and could not field a team as the second Conn. team. So Roger Ludlow who won the Connecticut consolation game so they replaced Stratton and ended up New England Champions as the 3rd place finisher in the Conn. tourney.

They had a player named Coombs who shot a two handed jump shot and broke the 3 game individual scoring record for the New Englands. They beat us 58-55.

Bangor also played at your name place that season Eddie, the EXPO with the balcony around the court. Great atmosphere for a basketball game.

Thought you might like some history of the New England's since you mentioned them in your post and some history of your name sake place Eddie. Still think ExpoEddie is the best MBR name. Really loved playing in the Expo as we beat Westbrook there.
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Re: Coaching Records

Postby ExpoEddie » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:05 pm

Love the history, as it is rich with talent and memories that need to be re-told. Is Stearns the only team from Maine to win the New England's?
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Re: Coaching Records

Postby bcbc55 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:40 pm

ExpoEddie wrote:Love the history, as it is rich with talent and memories that need to be re-told. Is Stearns the only team from Maine to win the New England's?


ExpoEddie: Waterville (Whiz Kids) in 1943 won the only 6 state New Englands as a Maine school.

Stearns championship in 1963 was a 5 state championship as Connecticut had withdrawn their two entries the year before.

With Connecticut teams in a team had to beat them both to win a New England Championship as the Nutmegger teams were put into different brackets.

In fact, if Connecticut had 2 teams in that year Stearns would not even have made the tournament as they lost to Morse of Bath in the State Championship game only to beat Morse in the New England's final.

Original 6 state format 2 teams each from Mass and Conn and 1 each for RI, Vt, NH and Maine.

5 state format which ended the New England's at the Boston Garden after that year in 1963 had Mass, Maine, RI each had 2 teams and Vt and NH each had 1 team.

Massachusetts pulled their 2 teams out after the 63 tourney. There were several 4 state championships held at College sites several for a few years but it was discontinued quickly.

When Waterville won in 43 they played at Brown University not in the Olde Boston Gardens.

Here IS a Maine New England Schoolboy Tournament Trivia Question?

What Maine High School Basketball coach has won the most games on the Olde Boston Garden Floor in the New England's Schoolboy Tournament?
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Re: Coaching Records

Postby interloper » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:50 pm

There was a brief revival of the New England basketball tournament in the mid 70s. It was a 4 team championship, with representatives from Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and Rhode Island. One year the A champion from Maine played the B champion for the right to advance. The A champion, maybe Rumford won. I believe that Maine won it one year, again I believe it was Rumford.
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Re: Coaching Records

Postby bcbc55 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:08 pm

interloper wrote:There was a brief revival of the New England basketball tournament in the mid 70s. It was a 4 team championship, with representatives from Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and Rhode Island. One year the A champion from Maine played the B champion for the right to advance. The A champion, maybe Rumford won. I believe that Maine won it one year, again I believe it was Rumford.


I: Thanks for adding that info. The games were not played in the Old Boston Garden, played at college sites instead as there was not a lot of interest in those 4 state events except maybe for the 4 teams involved.

But, back to your original post, the Boston Garden's games counted towards 1000 point scorers and coaches wins, don't know about the 4 state events. If mpa approved they would have counted and to be allowed to participate they would have had to be approved and allowed by the mpa then they counted.
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