ANSWER:Which AE women's player best on block post up skills?

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Re: ANSWER:Which AE women's player best on block post up ski

Postby parquetfloor » Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:18 pm

bcbc55 wrote:
UMaineSuperfan wrote:*whispers* it's probably because she is.

I love Sutton. Love. BUT, she's undersized, and really only has one move, the step through the lane. Forrest is bigger and has a full arsenal of moves. She's dynamic and an absolute load on the block.


"UMSF": I understand she is undersized but to me she still has the best power layup skills in the league despit6e her lack of size.

"Just different basketball strokes for different basketball folks".

However, look at the Stats. Sutton 14.3ppg Forester 9.9pp.... foul line 98 made for Sutton just 39 for Forester, doesn't look like her team used her as much as they should have on the block and the same could be said about Sutton.

Thanks for responding.


What do the scoring and foul shot stats have to do with post move skill set?
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Re: ANSWER:Which AE women's player best on block post up ski

Postby bcbc55 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:56 pm

parquetfloor wrote:
bcbc55 wrote:
UMaineSuperfan wrote:*whispers* it's probably because she is.

I love Sutton. Love. BUT, she's undersized, and really only has one move, the step through the lane. Forrest is bigger and has a full arsenal of moves. She's dynamic and an absolute load on the block.


"UMSF": I understand she is undersized but to me she still has the best power layup skills in the league despit6e her lack of size.

"Just different basketball strokes for different basketball folks".

However, look at the Stats. Sutton 14.3ppg Forester 9.9pp.... foul line 98 made for Sutton just 39 for Forester, doesn't look like her team used her as much as they should have on the block and the same could be said about Sutton.

Thanks for responding.


What do the scoring and foul shot stats have to do with post move skill set?


"PF": Shows that Zutton got to the line using her power layup skills even though she didn't hardly ever directly post up on the post compared to Forester.
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Re: ANSWER:Which AE women's player best on block post up ski

Postby parquetfloor » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:16 am

bcbc55 wrote:
parquetfloor wrote:
bcbc55 wrote:
However, look at the Stats. Sutton 14.3ppg Forester 9.9pp.... foul line 98 made for Sutton just 39 for Forester, doesn't look like her team used her as much as they should have on the block and the same could be said about Sutton.

Thanks for responding.


What do the scoring and foul shot stats have to do with post move skill set?


"PF": Shows that Zutton got to the line using her power layup skills even though she didn't hardly ever directly post up on the post compared to Forester.


No, it does not show that at all. You are just trying to interpret things that way. You don't know if she got to the line several times because of offensive rebounds, drives from the foul line, because Maine was in the bonus when she got fouled, etc. There is nothing that distinguishes how/why she got to the foul line.
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Re: ANSWER:Which AE women's player best on block post up ski

Postby bcbc55 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:41 pm

"PF": Sutton attempted 125 foul shots and made 98 only Maine player with over 100 foul shot attempts and had 107 offensive rebounds the only MAINE PLAYER OVER 100 OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS.

She lead the conference in FSA and offensive rebounds at 5'10" and did not play in the post like Crymble and Forester.

I watched every Maine game on line and her stat "Figures don't lie". I have no actual proof except what I saw and Sutton got to the paint more than any other player AE player and used the power layup skills more than any other player in AE in the games I saw.

She didn't take many 3's. She got her points in the paint off dribble penetration lst, cuts to the basket without the ball 2nd, offensive rebounds 3rd and being posted up (not much) 4th.
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Re: ANSWER:Which AE women's player best on block post up ski

Postby parquetfloor » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:48 pm

bcbc55 wrote:"PF": Sutton attempted 125 foul shots and made 98 only Maine player with over 100 foul shot attempts and had 107 offensive rebounds the only MAINE PLAYER OVER 100 OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS.

She lead the conference in FSA and offensive rebounds at 5'10" and did not play in the post like Crymble and Forester.

I watched every Maine game on line and her stat "Figures don't lie". I have no actual proof except what I saw and Sutton got to the paint more than any other player AE player and used the power layup skills more than any other player in AE in the games I saw.

She didn't take many 3's. She got her points in the paint off dribble penetration lst, cuts to the basket without the ball 2nd, offensive rebounds 3rd and being posted up (not much) 4th.


I am so confused now. You said she has the best moves in the post (power layup) and her stats proved it. Then you point to offensive rebounds (nothing to do with footwork on the block with the ball) and finish it off with talking about how she got most of her points, which you concede her post up points were at best 4th most.

All I'm saying is you can say she has the best power layup footwork in the conference and that's fine, it's your opinion. But don't try to back it up with stats that have absolutely no bearing on that opinion or the claim you are making.
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Re: ANSWER:Which AE women's player best on block post up ski

Postby bcbc55 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:06 pm

parquetfloor wrote:
bcbc55 wrote:"PF": Sutton attempted 125 foul shots and made 98 only Maine player with over 100 foul shot attempts and had 107 offensive rebounds the only MAINE PLAYER OVER 100 OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS.

She lead the conference in FSA and offensive rebounds at 5'10" and did not play in the post like Crymble and Forester.

I watched every Maine game on line and her stat "Figures don't lie". I have no actual proof except what I saw and Sutton got to the paint more than any other player AE player and used the power layup skills more than any other player in AE in the games I saw.

She didn't take many 3's. She got her points in the paint off dribble penetration lst, cuts to the basket without the ball 2nd, offensive rebounds 3rd and being posted up (not much) 4th.


I am so confused now. You said she has the best moves in the post (power layup) and her stats proved it. Then you point to offensive rebounds (nothing to do with footwork on the block with the ball) and finish it off with talking about how she got most of her points, which you concede her post up points were at best 4th most.

All I'm saying is you can say she has the best power layup footwork in the conference and that's fine, it's your opinion. But don't try to back it up with stats that have absolutely no bearing on that opinion or the claim you are making.


"PF": You can still post up and use your power layup skills regardless of how you get to the block. Her 4th best was direct post ups when she went to the block without the ball and posted up which was not very much.

Her stats at least to me help to show and confirm to me that Sutton was the most effective power layup skill player in the conference and she wasn't even a true post up player and the smallest player in the conference that got as many power layups as she did and to the foul line.
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Re: ANSWER:Which AE women's player best on block post up ski

Postby UMaineSuperfan » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:18 pm

Bob, you're completely mixing arguments.

Please, keep things on topic and keep your arguments straight.

You asked who has the best on block post up skills. While there are many ways to define "post up skills", one could reasonably assume that you meant "has the fullest complement of back to the basket moves", since you talk about it so much.

In order to support that argument you need the following information:
-per possession statistics from post-ups to indicate skill (though that really only indicates efficiency, which I would argue overlaps with but is not entirely indicative of skill; for example, a player could, in theory, have a really high points-per-possession on post up touches but get that mostly on dunks and free throws by playing bully ball, and that's not necessarily "skillful" as some might interpret it.)
-exclusive game tape and charting of post up possessions to determine how often a player goes to certain post moves

I know that you don't have either, we all do. There's no way you're paying thousands of dollars for that kind of data, and we all know you weren't watching Albany/UMass Lowell in your spare time.

So now you've moved the goal posts to claim Tanesha is the most efficient power dribble skill player. First, that's an oxymoron. A power dribble and post-up skill are inherently different things. Furthermore, to determine efficiency, you need hard, exact data. You simply don't have it. Peripheral or tangentially related statistics like offensive rebounds and overall scoring aren't going to cut it. Period. It's a non starter.

So, the best you can realistically do in this argument is to say that while Tanesha didn't get posted up very much relative to her conference opponents (again, everyone on this forum knows you don't have that data. Maine plays 1/8th of the games in the conference, I'd bet good money you haven't watched a ton of those 7/8ths, so who really knows), your watching of the games suggests that Tanesha does the most with her post touches due to her ability to be efficient using a tried and true post move (step through with a power dribble). I actually find that point pretty reasonable; Tanesha did a good job when given the ball in the low post.

On the other hand...in one (1) playoff game, we saw Hannah Crymble display a more varied set of post moves than Tanesha did all year. That's neither good nor bad, but you'd be hard pressed to argue otherwise.

So, what is the point you're trying to make?
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Re: ANSWER:Which AE women's player best on block post up ski

Postby bcbc55 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:01 pm

[quote="UMaineSuperfan"]Bob, you're completely mixing arguments.

Please, keep things on topic and keep your arguments straight.

You asked who has the best on block post up skills. While there are many ways to define "post up skills", one could reasonably assume that you meant "has the fullest complement of back to the basket moves", since you talk about it so much.

In order to support that argument you need the following information:
-per possession statistics from post-ups to indicate skill (though that really only indicates efficiency, which I would argue overlaps with but is not entirely indicative of skill; for example, a player could, in theory, have a really high points-per-possession on post up touches but get that mostly on dunks and free throws by playing bully ball, and that's not necessarily "skillful" as some might interpret it.)
-exclusive game tape and charting of post up possessions to determine how often a player goes to certain post moves

I know that you don't have either, we all do. There's no way you're paying thousands of dollars for that kind of data, and we all know you weren't watching Albany/UMass Lowell in your spare time.

So now you've moved the goal posts to claim Tanesha is the most efficient power dribble skill player. First, that's an oxymoron. A power dribble and post-up skill are inherently different things. Furthermore, to determine efficiency, you need hard, exact data. You simply don't have it. Peripheral or tangentially related statistics like offensive rebounds and overall scoring aren't going to cut it. Period. It's a non starter.

So, the best you can realistically do in this argument is to say that while Tanesha didn't get posted up very much relative to her conference opponents (again, everyone on this forum knows you don't have that data. Maine plays 1/8th of the games in the conference, I'd bet good money you haven't watched a ton of those 7/8ths, so who really knows), your watching of the games suggests that Tanesha does the most with her post touches due to her ability to be efficient using a tried and true post move (step through with a power dribble). I actually find that point pretty reasonable; Tanesha did a good job when given the ball in the low post.

On the other hand...in one (1) playoff game, we saw Hannah Crymble display a more varied set of post moves than Tanesha did all year. That's neither good nor bad, but you'd be hard pressed to argue otherwise.


So, what is the point you're trying to make?[/questionn's

UMSF: Just answering my own question of this thread. Which AE women's player best on block post up skills>?

My answer was Tanesha Sutton and considering she did not get posted up much on the block without taking the ball to the basket off dribble penetration, getting offensive rebounds or cuts to the basket herself.

Sutton, "Made Hay while the sun shined". For a non post player she still had the best power layup skills in the conference in my opinion. None of the other post up players were used enough by the other 8 teams either.
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Re: ANSWER:Which AE women's player best on block post up ski

Postby UMaineSuperfan » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:52 pm

If you were in my wife's 6th grade English class your essay would fail due to insufficient evidence.

I remain unimpressed by your opinion on this subject.

I gotta be honest I was expecting better. Lord knows you've got free time. Use that ESPN+ subscription you paid for and grind some tape. Put in the work Bob, impress us with your actual ability to watch and analyze tape. Chart some possessions for the players you're talking about.
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Re: ANSWER:Which AE women's player best on block post up ski

Postby bcbc55 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:23 pm

UMaineSuperfan wrote:If you were in my wife's 6th grade English class your essay would fail due to insufficient evidence.

I remain unimpressed by your opinion on this subject.

I gotta be honest I was expecting better. Lord knows you've got free time. Use that ESPN+ subscription you paid for and grind some tape. Put in the work Bob, impress us with your actual ability to watch and analyze tape. Chart some possessions for the players you're talking about.


UMSF: Sorry, but my ESPN+ subscription is over with only paid by the month. Just "Difference basketball strokes for different basketball folks" or "What floats my basketball boat doesn't necessarily floats your basketball boat" or vice versa.

You can have Forster, Albany or Crymble, Vt and I'll take Sutton. Vermont still has to fill their head coach position and Albany's head coach was a first yearer.

Next year 3 schools will have new coaches, 3 will have 2nd year coaches and 3 will have more than 2 years as head coaches.

Not a lot of experienced coaches in the America East Women's conference for next year.
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