How did the transfers-out do?

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How did the transfers-out do?

Postby turkeyman » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:19 pm

Not sure whether to start this thread or tack this post onto the Eze-Ashley mbb thread. This is a look at how the women's transfers-out from Maine did in their first year of eligibility at their new schools.

To begin, none is on a team that will be an AQ in the NCAA tournament. All four teams -- I'm not counting St. Edward's of Texas, where Hernandez-Pepe went, as she got done there last year -- lost in their conference tournaments.

Duquesne, where Laia Sole transferred, was 19-13, lost in the A-10 semis to Fordham. Butler, where Naira Caceras transferred, went 21-9 but lost in the quarters of the Big East tournament to six-seed Creighton. Georgetown, where Anita Kelava transferred, went 16-15, lost in the semis to one-seed Marquette in the Big East. And Texas Tech, where Tihana Stojsavljevic transferred, went 14-17 and lost in the quarters of the Big 12.

Yes, you can argue that all transferred to stronger conferences. Can't deny that. But Blanca and Fanny have already played in the NCAA once and may play there again this year. These four will have to wait at least one more year.

Duquesne and Butler seem likely to get WNIT bids despite Butler's losing in the quarters to a lower seed. Butler might even get an NCAA bid, though it finished third in the Big East regular season. Georgetown may be on the cusp for WNIT but could easily buy into the WBI if it wanted. Texas Tech is done. Utah, to which Julie Brosseau bailed a year later, started 12-0 and finished 20-10. Utes' coach rejected WNIT bid.

I have long wondered how often transfers succeed at their new schools. Remember Whitney Morrow (SoPo HS)
who transferred to Maine from Richmond? Never played a minute at Maine or anywhere else that I can find. She might have at least continued to come in off the bench had she stayed at Richmond. Here are some stats on how the four who left as freshmen have done.

Sole. Played fewer than half the minutes she played at Maine (836/385). Scoring average declined by same margin (53%). Some progress, though, in boards (121 at Maine to 91 at Duq but in far fewer minutes), fouls (60-43) and turnovers (61-26).

Caceras. Also fewer minutes but not so drastic as Sole (659 at Maine, 562 at Butler). Shooting improved dramatically, to 41 percent from 31, though her 3-point shooting fell to 18 percent. Not a good number for a PG. Her rebounds per game went down, as did assists and fouls, but turnovers went up.

Kelava. The only one to play more minutes than she played at Maine (to 642 from 528), and the only one to start regularly even for part of the season. But her per-game averages didn't improve much, if at all. Scoring went down to 3.1, but boards went up to 4.3 from 2.3. Fouls rose a lot, while turnovers fell and blocks rose.

Stojsavljevic. She needed the most work of the great class of 2016-17, but it looks as if she didn't get it at Tech. Coach who recruited her from Maine got fired. New coach didn't use Stojsavljevic much, 41 minutes in 10 games after 93 minutes in 19 games at Maine. All other stats were down except rebounds (to 12 from 11).

That's a lot of numbers, I know. But they indicate to me that as talented as this class was when it flew over the pond, these kids didn't benefit much from sitting out a year, presumably practicing and being coached. I thought that a couple didn't improve much while at Maine (Caceras, who seemed to resist being put at the three or four; Kelava, who was stronger defensively than offensively but needed to improve her post moves and take more shots). Sole, I thought, made steady progress through about half the season but then stopped. I have wondered in retrospect if the transfers-out had made up their minds at some point in January or February that they weren't staying. I remember a quote from Blanca several months after the transfers left to the effect of: I knew what was going on but I didn't want any part of it. Hope I got that paraphrase close to exact.

Would be nice if at least a couple of those four (plus Brosseau) had stayed. But if you asked me who was the best of the seven, I never had any doubt it was Blanca. And Fanny has really blossomed this year despite missing 10 games with a concussion. She might serve as evidence that continuing to play and develop one's skills is better than going somewhere else and having to take a year away from real competition. Of course, Tanesha is opposite evidence. She is thriving at Maine after a tough freshman year at Duquesne. Yeah, Sole had the best numbers of the four who left, but I'll take that trade of Tanesha for Sole any day.

I'd be interested to see other examples of how transfers did when they left. Calixte is a good example of a player who probably bettered his situation. Maybe Kelava, too, though she got fewer minutes and starts later in the season. Others?

And if Blanca and Fanny get to the NCAAs this year, they will have already got there as much as any of the others can get there because the transfers-out have only two years left to get to the Dance.

Hurry Friday. Go, you Bears.

Bob Neal
New Sharon
Last edited by turkeyman on Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: How did the transfers-out do?

Postby mainejeff » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:55 pm

Great post Bob. I've been tracking them as well. I'll take where Maine is right now despite the thin bench. I've said it before but Kelava was the biggest loss of the ones that played this season. She could have been a great defensive presence in AE.

Brosseau will end up being the biggest loss though. Could have used her this season.......could REALLY use her next season. Can't wait to hear who the other 2 or 3 recruits are!
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Re: How did the transfers-out do?

Postby turkeyman » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:42 pm

MJ, I agree with you about Kelava. I'm a bit surprised that with more minutes she didn't make more progress on the offensive end this year. And I don't know why her minutes started going down late in the season. Perhaps the lack of offensive development? Maybe injured? Just don't know.

I sort of agree with you on Brosseau. She made great strides in defense during her sophomore year. Almost from the first game -- all right, the second game, because no one played well in the first game (Tulane) -- she was playing defense with her feet, which she hadn't done often as a freshman. But her offense became spottier in her sophomore year, and she seemed to stop developing her dribble penetration. At 5-8, she could take her man inside and score. She became more of a spot-up three-point shooter in her sophomore year, and had a bad dry spell for six or seven games at the end of the regular season. She might have decided about then to go to Utah with her two chums from CEGEP Montmorency and was looking more to the future. More likely, the unexpected death of her grandmother, the same day as the shooting at Parkland High School in Florida, just threw her.

By the way, those two events happened the day that UMass Lowell played at the CIC, and you might remember that Lowell gave Maine a good game for most of the night before losing. Both Brosseau and Kat had awful events that day in their personal lives.

The Utes lose their top scorer and three others, two guards and a big who was a sometimes starter, next year, so Brosseau may step right in there.

I'd like to see examples of how other transfers both w and m have done.

Bob Neal
New Sharon
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Re: How did the transfers-out do?

Postby Linguist » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:05 am

I heard rumblings Brousseau thought she was always too good for Maine and didn't get the offer she wanted so "settled" for Maine. But from what I was told she wanted a bigger school and used Maine as a stepping stone, she was always looking to get out of Orono.

Maybe that is just a person looking to blame a kid who left, but it's another perspective.
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Re: How did the transfers-out do?

Postby Blind Zebra » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:33 am

The Maine Men’s team list of transfers is a lengthy one. Some have moved up to high or mid majors others have moved down to D2 schools in recent years.
High Major-
Aaron Calixte- Scoreed 1100 points in 3 year plus years at Maine, left for Oklahoma as a grad transfer. He started the year strong as the team’s starting point guard. As the Big 12 conference slate wore on, Aaron struggled with consistency and lost his starting spot to a freshman. As fans of UMM know, Aaron was a shooting guard trapped in a point guard’s body. Did not have required size to get his penetration game going at the high major level.He finishes the season averaging 7 ppg, 2 rpg and 2 app. Oklahoma has 19 wins and an ugly conference record. They will not make the Big Dance.
Wes Myers-Maine’s leading scorer of 2016-17 and another grad transfer to South Carolina following a fight with Marko Pirovic two years ago. Wes became a part time starter at USC playing in 30 games and averaging similar numbers to Calixte.
Justin Edwards- Justin transferred up to Kansas State a few years back prior to TW’s dismissal. He struggled with the transition as a redshirt junior averaging 6.5 ppg as a reserve. He improved as a senior starter averaging around 11 ppg and elevating his defensive play. Edwards relied on his high major athleticism. He lacked tight ball handling and a consistent deep shooting touch.
Mid Major-
Xavier Pollard left Maine after his junior year to pursue a higher level of play at a winning Kent State program. X was Maine’s leading scorer as a junior combo guard. Became Kent’s 6th man averaging 11 ppg, 3 rpg and 3 apg. Suffered an injury in one of the last games of the season which hampered the team’s post season chances.

Several other players transferred down to D2 or Canadian in recent years:
Austin Howard- double figure scorer/starter at Charleston (WV)
Trae Bryant- hot shooting 6th man this year at OKC U.
Erik Nissen- buried on the bench as Maine Soph. Became 2nd team All Canadian at Acadia U.
Vernon Lowdnes Jr- could not crack the rotation at Texas A & M Commerce
Dimitry Amanda- Coronel- Maine starter & Bryant commit who dropped out of school
Troy Reid- Knight- Oft injured/rotational sub at Maine transferred to Canadian power Carleton with minimal impact
Christian Ejiga- Nigerian big man who never made Walsh’s rotation and continued to struggle at D2 Caldwell
I’ve probably missed a few recent ones. Interesting that the high/mid major guys were all important rotational or starting caliber players. The D2/Canadian Guys were a mixed bag. Surprised that Lowndes didn’t catch on.
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Re: How did the transfers-out do?

Postby fafan » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:43 am

Interesting to compare stats but most of all the transfers went to schools and programs that higher rated than Maine's. I remember the day the transfers announced they were leaving it was like getting punched in the gut.
Bottom line if Sole and Kelava were still on this team we would have something we don't now and that is a bench. Just relying on one bench player is tough. Still like everyone I like this team and will be rooting like crazy Friday nite but boy we they would have made us better.
Still remember the first game with all these players against Villanova and it might have been one of the most impressive victories because we really had no idea who these players were and just how good they were as well. ;)
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Re: How did the transfers-out do?

Postby MaineBBFan99 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:46 am

Still remember the first game with all these players against Villanova and it might have been one of the most impressive victories because we really had no idea who these players were and just how good they were as well. ;)


I am pretty sure that first game was against Purdue, and it was very impressive. It honestly might have been that team's best performance all season.
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Re: How did the transfers-out do?

Postby fafan » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:00 am

MaineBBFan99 wrote:
Still remember the first game with all these players against Villanova and it might have been one of the most impressive victories because we really had no idea who these players were and just how good they were as well. ;)


I am pretty sure that first game was against Purdue, and it was very impressive. It honestly might have been that team's best performance all season.


MaineBBFan99, you are probably right I think Villanova was the 2nd nite but it was one impressive outing regardless.
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Re: How did the transfers-out do?

Postby turkeyman » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:15 am

Yes, MBBF99, first game was Purdue. Final was 67-47, Maine. First quarter score was 25-6 Maine, and Black Bears outscored Purdue each quarter until the fourth. Starters were Tanesha (her first start for Maine), Sigi, Blanca and Sole and Caceras. Second game was Mississippi State, which smoked Maine 83-47. That brought us back down to earth. Who knew MSU was that good? We knew after the second game. Mississippi State also smoked Villanova on the first night.

Purdue left shell-shocked, and the losses ignited a firestorm on Purdue message boards. Calls for the head of Sharon Versyp, whose first head-coaching job had been at Maine, and predictions that Purdue was done for all time. No one in the building ever expected Purdue would lose two, especially when it didn't face the team that was clearly the cream of the crop, Mississippi State.

With the possible exception of the year Maine took UGa to overtime, that may have been the best tournament Maine has hosted. And, it brought an opportunity to meet, ever so briefly, one of the giants of women's basketball history, Van Chancellor, who was here as color commentator for MSU after his great coaching career with Ole Miss and the Houston Rockets.

Love to get a tournament like that again.

Bob Neal
New Sharon
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Re: How did the transfers-out do?

Postby Linguist » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:11 am

Men's transfers :

Trae Bryant - ???

Ryan Bernstein - Mansfield - 7 games played, 7 started - 12.6 ppg, 7 assists per game, 3 rpg

Walter King - ???

Aaron Calixte - Oklahoma -

Kevin Little - Colorado State --> Tennessee-Martin - 25 games played, 14 started - 8.3 ppg, 3.6 apg, 1.6 rpg

Vernon Lowndes, JR - Texas A&M Commerce - 22 games played, 1 start - 2.0 ppg, 1.5 rpg

Duncan Douglas - career ending injury

---

Juquan McKennon - ???

Lavar Harewood - South Carolina State - 24 games played, 17 started - 8.8 ppg, 3.3 rpg, less than 1 apg

Dusan Mastorovic - turned pro (didn't look up his stats)

Isaac Vann - VCU - 31 games played, 31 starts - 11ppg, 3.6 rpg, 2+ apg

Devine Eke - Rider - 31 games played, 1 start - 3.6 ppg, 2.6 rpg
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