Final: Lamb's 34pts leads Vermont by Maine 73-57

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Re: Final: Lamb's 34pts leads Vermont by Maine 73-57

Postby bcbc55 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:23 pm

parquetfloor wrote:
bcbc55 wrote:"Parquetfloor": WE have always seem to agree on things here on MBR. But please read my "Coaching without Ego" thread here on MBR Maine D-1 Athletics and then you may Understand why I do not believe in YELLING, SCREAMING OR GETTING ON PLAYERS DURING GAMES OR PRACTICES FOR THAT MATTER and never did it when I was coaching.

I went into coaching for one reason and one reason only in 1960-61 "TO TEACH THE LIFE LESSONS THAT CANNOT BE TAUGHT OR LEARNED IN THE ACADEMIC CLASSROOMS" and I don't care what level you are coaching at you cannot teach these "Life Lessons" properly by getting on players verbally. I used the John Wooden statement that The coaches best friend is the bench". He should have added "The Wooden Bench".

When I took a player out of a game for poor play the player sat down on the bench beside the assistant coach and he was asked why did the head coach take you out and if he didn't know the assistant coach would tell him.

We also used a similar type of system of telling a player if he knew why he was sitting during practice and if he did not know he was told.

I was more interested in "Life Lessons" than I was wins, but this way of treating players having to sit down lead to some very successful coaching seasons for the players, team. fans at me at 3 different high schools.

I guess it is just "Different basketball coaching strokes for different basketball coaching folks.

I am just trying to agree to disagree with you on this subject in a polite and positive way without getting a little unhinged by a post to me and getting a little negative towards me about my post.

As far as assuming on Barron about transfers and recruiting> The proof is in the pudding. Didn't he have 5 or 6 players all transfer out with the women's team 3 years ago and didn't a player leave and then return when Vachon took over? Doug Leichner was the first UMaine coach to recruit internationally at Maine and he was doing that before Barron got to Maine.

Also, Brad Stevens is my idea of how a coach should handle players and "Coaching without Ego".

Do you think that the coaches you mentioned could actually, "Coach without Ego"?

I prefer positive role models as coaches, players and officials.

That is just me.


There is a time and a place for everything, not to mention not every player reacts the same way to coaching styles. There are some you could get after them and they fold like a wet paper towel. Then there are others that if you DON'T get on them, they won't change the behavior the coach is trying to correct. Different players react differently and a great coach figures out what works for every kid and coaches them accordingly IMO.

The transfer is such a moot point IMO. There are so many transfers, both men and women, nowadays that it almost doesn't even matter to me anymore.

Also, did players transfer out due to the condition that the Coach was battling health-wise? Did the one decide to come back because the unfortunate situation was resolved and no longer in flux? Was he maybe acting differently due to the health situation he was dealing with? All those are questions that I'm not sure anyone here has the answers to. So, I am not assuming anything at all.

What on earth does Leichner have to do with this conversation?????????????? (throwing in extra ?'s is fun)


PF: Good post and agree that you are right that some have to be yelled at and some have to be treated with kid gloves. Enjoy the back and forth banter.

However, that was not me as I always told my players that they all would be treated the same for everything except for playing time period. So did not get on my players negatively I let the "Wooden Rule" work and it did because all they really want from you as a coach is playing time and TO BE EQUALLY FAIR IN ALL OTHER THINGS CONCERNING THE PLAYERS AND TEAM. And also I knew it worked because I averaged 1 plus players per year of the 29 years I coached went into coaching.

I always told my players that when I pass on to that "Big Beautiful Basketball Court in the SKY, that they can right on my headstone. Coach was )(*&^%$#@!, but he was a very fair )(*&^%$#@!.

And I did it without being a yeller or screamer, as I did it by "Coaching without Ego". I didn't know I did it without Ego until I read that article yesterday some 20 years after I retired from, teaching physical education, coaching and athletic directing for 40 years.

It is just "what floats others basketball coaching boat may not float my basketball coaching boat"!

Always told my players that if they didn't do what I wanted them to do, then it was my fault.
Always told my players that if what I told them to do didn't work, then it was my fault.
Always told my players the defeats were mine and the wins were theirs.

Doug Leichner not for fun, but Because I think many fans think it was Barron's original idea because of all of his success to recruit internationally and it wasn't it was Doug's original idea because he had the overseas contacts from coaching there and was the first basketball coach to recruit internationally at UMaine.

Again really enjoy positive banter back and forth like your last post. Excellent response.

Just agreeing to disagree positively and politely.
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Re: Final: Lamb's 34pts leads Vermont by Maine 73-57

Postby Linguist » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:51 am

parquetfloor wrote:
bcbc55 wrote:"parquetfloor": Sure there was/is a difference in taking over those two programs, But remember. The Maine women's program was in just as bad shape as the men's program is now when Barron took the women's job. So 3 years is enough time.

Vachon may have done it with Barron's recruits but who do you think did most of the recruiting on those recruits in the first place?

Why do you think all those players transferred 3 years ago out and one starter now didn't play a year, but came back when Vachon took over the head job? Remember the Clemson game and the deal with the subs??????????

You don't get on players in front of fans during games. Fans who sit right behind the Maine men's bench tell me that he was on White's case and others at the end of the season. Good way to get players to transfer out.

By the way just my opinion and as I said before. If they had had a national search and Barron was the best candidate and best fit for Maine men's program, then so be it. That didn't happen and as a land grant, public institution I want to see things done that are done the right way because In the ESPN article about Barron it stated that the leaving AD asked Barron of he wanted the Maine men's job an then the AD leaves and gives him a 5 year contract.

Barron knew what he was getting into with the men's program compared to what he was getting into with the women's program seeing that he had been on campus for 6 years.


Again, taking over the women's program vs the men's program are 2 entirely different things. Why do you think he could rebuild the women's program relatively fast? Look at all the tradition he could point to...attendance, NCAA appearances, NCAA win, conference titles, 20 win seasons, players in the pros, etc etc etc.

Now, what kind of tradition does he have to sell to men's prospects? I'll wait for your list...

You most certainly get on players. Do you even watch games or just say you do? I have seen Coach K, Tom Izzo, Matt Painter, Bill Self and Gary Williams to name just a handful rip into guys on the sideline when they are screwing up. Now, I have no idea what they are saying but I can certainly see the way in which the message is being delivered.

I guess you are just "assuming" a lot of things about Barron, transfers, recruiting, etc. But, since it is you, we should just all go along with it and accept it as truth right?

Anyway, the whole point of my even getting into this conversation is that 3 years is ridiculous for anyone to expect a complete overhaul of one of a handful of programs that has never ever made the NCAA Tournament and has ZERO for tradition.



All of this!

nearly 100 years of futility, versus a program with 7 conference titles and an at large NCAA bid and an NCAA tournament win.

Oh and Men's college basketball players are so much different than women's players.

But what ever. None of that matters.
Linguist
 
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Re: Final: Lamb's 34pts leads Vermont by Maine 73-57

Postby bcbc55 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:15 pm

Linguist wrote:
parquetfloor wrote:
bcbc55 wrote:"parquetfloor": Sure there was/is a difference in taking over those two programs, But remember. The Maine women's program was in just as bad shape as the men's program is now when Barron took the women's job. So 3 years is enough time.

Vachon may have done it with Barron's recruits but who do you think did most of the recruiting on those recruits in the first place?

Why do you think all those players transferred 3 years ago out and one starter now didn't play a year, but came back when Vachon took over the head job? Remember the Clemson game and the deal with the subs??????????

You don't get on players in front of fans during games. Fans who sit right behind the Maine men's bench tell me that he was on White's case and others at the end of the season. Good way to get players to transfer out.

By the way just my opinion and as I said before. If they had had a national search and Barron was the best candidate and best fit for Maine men's program, then so be it. That didn't happen and as a land grant, public institution I want to see things done that are done the right way because In the ESPN article about Barron it stated that the leaving AD asked Barron of he wanted the Maine men's job an then the AD leaves and gives him a 5 year contract.

Barron knew what he was getting into with the men's program compared to what he was getting into with the women's program seeing that he had been on campus for 6 years.


Again, taking over the women's program vs the men's program are 2 entirely different things. Why do you think he could rebuild the women's program relatively fast? Look at all the tradition he could point to...attendance, NCAA appearances, NCAA win, conference titles, 20 win seasons, players in the pros, etc etc etc.

Now, what kind of tradition does he have to sell to men's prospects? I'll wait for your list...

You most certainly get on players. Do you even watch games or just say you do? I have seen Coach K, Tom Izzo, Matt Painter, Bill Self and Gary Williams to name just a handful rip into guys on the sideline when they are screwing up. Now, I have no idea what they are saying but I can certainly see the way in which the message is being delivered.

I guess you are just "assuming" a lot of things about Barron, transfers, recruiting, etc. But, since it is you, we should just all go along with it and accept it as truth right?

Anyway, the whole point of my even getting into this conversation is that 3 years is ridiculous for anyone to expect a complete overhaul of one of a handful of programs that has never ever made the NCAA Tournament and has ZERO for tradition.



All of this!

nearly 100 years of futility, versus a program with 7 conference titles and an at large NCAA bid and an NCAA tournament win.

Oh and Men's college basketball players are so much different than women's players.

But what ever. None of that matters.


"Linguist": The biggest difference in coaching men/women or boys/girls is that the women/girls are more coachable and try harder to please their coaches. They don't have the EGO's.

Gavett's success was with all Mainers and Palumbo's with mostly Maine Players and what little success the men's program has had over the years was with Maine players.
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