Game Discussion: Maine Men Vs. Vermont 2/6/19

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Re: Game Discussion: Maine Men Vs. Vermont 2/6/19

Postby mainejeff » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:49 pm

hoopsisme wrote:Math folks, math. Colby is triple the cost to attend. Factor in some seriously wealthy alums and the new facility happens.
Vermont's new hoop facility and gutterson upgrade is around 45-50k. Not 100 million.


I'm not just talking money for new facilities....guy is committed to Colby and partnership with Waterville. Lots of commitment, partnerships, etc involved....but the guy is a visionary and go-getter.

But excuses excuses....Orono/Bangor/Eastern Maine always have plenty off them! ;) :roll:

Eastern Maine just isn't set up (in numerous ways) to be the home of the flagship campus. Money is one thing.....but there are other factors too. The woe-is-me B.S. of the Greater Bangor area sucks.
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Re: Game Discussion: Maine Men Vs. Vermont 2/6/19

Postby thebam » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

hoopsisme wrote:Math folks, math. Colby is triple the cost to attend. Factor in some seriously wealthy alums and the new facility happens.
Vermont's new hoop facility and gutterson upgrade is around 45-50k. Not 100 million.

Try 95 million.
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Re: Game Discussion: Maine Men Vs. Vermont 2/6/19

Postby Justabasketballfan » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:03 pm

Hey basketball_guy, how far is it from campus to the arena ... 10 miles?
My very strong guess is that most UMaine students have their own transportation, or have friends who can provide. If they want to get to games, no big deal.
UMaine, with severe financial issues, isn't going to spend $100 million (yes, Vermont's project is at a cost of $95 million) on a new arena when a perfectly good option, with all the bells and whistles, is so close by. So, stop dreaming.

Also, if the school wanted to involve students, it would provide a couple of buses to transport them. It might already, I don't know if it does, or not. But, many schools that play off campus do indeed provide free busing for students that want to attend games at off-campus arenas.
And, how many students actually go to games? I recently attended a game at UBuffalo ... total enrollment of close to 30,000 students. An on-campus arena. Plus, UB is very good. Estimated student attendance: 200.
There is student apathy towards athletics everywhere at the mid-to-low major levels of basketball.
How many students actually went to games when they were on campus? I recall going to a women's game on campus 8 or 9 years ago when total attendance was about 100, and there were, probably, 30 students there.

Colby? Yes, tuition is triple UMaine's. Many, many rich alums. An endowment of close to $1 billion. Maine's endowment is about a third of Colby's, and has considerably more expenses beyond athletics.
Comparing a rich private school like Colby to a public institution run by a state with financial restraints is comparing a Volkswagon to a Porsche.

Cost to rent the arena? A drop in the bucket compared to spending $100 million on an on-campus facility that also includes the considerable expense of upkeep/staff, etc. Very strong guess is that Maine isn't losing money playing in the Cross. The other very strong guess is that the school gets a considerable discount on the standard rental fee. That's almost universally the case when colleges rent nearby arenas for their full schedule of games. I'll stand corrected if someone can show otherwise about Maine's agreement with the Cross Center. But, any on-campus arena at schools below the high-major level are big-time money losers. A scheduling conflict for a potential tournament home game at the Cross Center? The very strong likelihood is that Maine, which will finish 7th or 8th in the league, won't qualify for a home game this season. So, no issue there.

These aren't excuses. They're reality.

As for Turkeyman ... great insight, well-researched, etc. But, there are valid reasons why administrators don't stay at Maine for a lengthy career. It's one of the lowest-paying D1 programs in the country. ADs/Presidents are on the very low end of the salary structure compared to most other schools. There are probably D2 schools that pay more to ADs/Presidents. So, why stay at Maine when a better-paying school offers? No reason.
Why stay in the cold, great white north, have to deal with all the handcuffs/handicaps, all the financial restrictions, etc., when a school with better facilities, resources, more-desirable living area, etc., comes calling? No reason.

Same reasons why it's difficult to recruit athletes to Maine: lousy location, lack of resources, low-level league, etc.

Yes, Turkeyman is right not to hold his breath when it comes to getting new facilities and long-term administrators at our school.
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Re: Game Discussion: Maine Men Vs. Vermont 2/6/19

Postby dunbar » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:30 pm

Ken Ralph stated in the BDN that Maine is losing money on the CIC.
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Re: Game Discussion: Maine Men Vs. Vermont 2/6/19

Postby fafan » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:46 pm

dunbar wrote:Ken Ralph stated in the BDN that Maine is losing money on the CIC.


And of course the next logical question is the ROI, return on investment, on a 100 million investment to recoup the losses spent at the cross center?

Wanna bet the ROI is not a feasible investment ;)
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Re: Game Discussion: Maine Men Vs. Vermont 2/6/19

Postby dunbar » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:53 pm

fafan wrote:
dunbar wrote:Ken Ralph stated in the BDN that Maine is losing money on the CIC.


And of course the next logical question is the ROI, return on investment, on a 100 million investment to recoup the losses spent at the cross center?

Wanna bet the ROI is not a feasible investment ;)


Maine needs to replace Alfond Arena within the next ten years. It's either that or drop hockey.
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Re: Game Discussion: Maine Men Vs. Vermont 2/6/19

Postby fafan » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:56 pm

dunbar wrote:
fafan wrote:
dunbar wrote:Ken Ralph stated in the BDN that Maine is losing money on the CIC.


And of course the next logical question is the ROI, return on investment, on a 100 million investment to recoup the losses spent at the cross center?

Wanna bet the ROI is not a feasible investment ;)


Maine needs to replace Alfond Arena within the next ten years. It's either that or drop hockey.


Valid point. Is it feasible to have basketball and hockey share an arena?
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Re: Game Discussion: Maine Men Vs. Vermont 2/6/19

Postby dunbar » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:01 pm

fafan wrote:
dunbar wrote:
fafan wrote:
And of course the next logical question is the ROI, return on investment, on a 100 million investment to recoup the losses spent at the cross center?

Wanna bet the ROI is not a feasible investment ;)


Maine needs to replace Alfond Arena within the next ten years. It's either that or drop hockey.


Valid point. Is it feasible to have basketball and hockey share an arena?


Boston College, Connecticut, Lowell, Massachusetts, and Northeastern would say yes, and that's in Hockey East alone.
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Re: Game Discussion: Maine Men Vs. Vermont 2/6/19

Postby Justabasketballfan » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:00 pm

Great insight from fafan: "And of course the next logical question is the ROI, return on investment, on a 100 million investment to recoup the losses spent at the cross center? Wanna bet the ROI is not a feasible investment ;)"

No bet, because the ROI on a $100 million arena is a negative one. It would almost certainly cost more in operations/staff/utility bills, etc., to operate an on-campus arena than it costs to rent the Cross Center.

The very strong guess here is that there's a set fee per date used, or possibly, a yearly fee for the entire schedule, for the games at the Cross Center. Playing there (again a guess) would actually become profitable if per-game attendance actually went up over the current average of about 1,035 per home game there.

I don't know what the break-even point would be. But, a good season would surely bring in more than 2,000 per home game, which would probably mean a profit playing there without having to build a $100 million facility, or care for/administrate one.

As for a hockey arena ... I'll leave that to the hockey fans, of which I am not one.
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Re: Game Discussion: Maine Men Vs. Vermont 2/6/19

Postby dunbar » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:48 pm

Any arena built on the Maine campus would need to accommodate both basketball and hockey, in which most modern arenas are built to do. If Maine needs to replace Alfond Arena (which they do), there's no chance you build that venue as hockey-only.

Maine needs a Division I basketball and hockey arena, in which they currently have neither.
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