Princeton Men 73 Maine men 59

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Re: Princeton Men 73 Maine men 59

Postby mainejeff » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:45 am

CoachA wrote:Also...only shooting 2 free throws in a 40 minute college game is unacceptable. Not getting the ball in the paint and not attacking the basket is why that happens. You're not going to get to the line with an opportunity to stop the clock and get some free points when you don't move the ball beyond the perimeter.


That is a major problem for both the men's & women's teams.
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Re: Princeton Men 73 Maine men 59

Postby fromthebench » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:07 pm

Things are looking up. The Bears lack a tall knock down three point set shooter.
Both Princeton and Quinnipiac had some slow 6'6" not the greatest athlete type guys who came in and knocked down
4-5 set shot three's against the Maine zone and broke the game open.
These were set shots that required no elite athleticism. Just a skill that you cannot teach.
This was the difference in both games IMO. We lack that weapon against a zone.
As a coach I think you need to have every tool in the tool box at your disposal.
I'm still not convinced this has been addressed for this year or next.
Generally speaking, the team that makes the most three's wins the game every time.
But, overall I think we're on the right path. :)
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Re: Princeton Men 73 Maine men 59

Postby bcbc55 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:42 pm

Linguist wrote:1 - bcbc55 - Are you really complaining about the minutes? Aren't you the one for 4 years who harped on Walsh for playing too many players not enough minutes? Now the rotation is tightened down and Barron is playing his best players the bulk of the minutes and you are still unhappy? How exactly would a UMaine basketball coach please you? Let go of the grudge and stop beating the dead horse. Please bury the hatchet.

2 - AEChamps - The system is 7 games old how can you not believe in it yet? And with the amount of players brought in this year they need to learn the system and learn their teammates and coaching staff, this isn't Duke where McDonald's All-Americans are coming in, this is UMaine. What in the world after Woodward to Walsh would make you think there were any players left for Barron to turn to? And why would you think that pile of parts and pieces would be playing better than this. Time to real in those expectations.

3 - To all - This year is not based on wins and losses. This is a year to change the feel in the locker room, to get rid of some dead weight on the roster, find out who can play and who is willing to play in Barron's system. I can not foresee a way this team wins 5 games this year. This is a redshirt year for guys like Ingo and Pirjovic. I doubt we see Iluyomade and Yagodin back after the injuries and use this as a medical redshirt year for them. And we haven't seen Begic yet. So those 5 guys will be in the system for a year and come in next year along with another 3 recruits already inked. There needed to be a culture change and a roster overhaul and that is the result expected for this year. Don't count on wins, count on seeing a change in the team.
And I'll let you in on a little secret, they probably won't win 10 games next year either.

But if you want to see positives, okay here are some.

Isaiah White looks like a leader and can be the focal point of the offense, and he can be used as a display model to a recruit saying "Look what he is doing, you play his position, those minutes, those touches, those shots are yours when he leaves, and you believe you are better than him right, so imagine what you can do if you become a Black Bear"

Sergio el Darwich looks like a hustler.

Vilgot Larsson seems like he can fit it.

Terion Moss can play at this level, he needs to put on some muscle but he can play, add some experience and some weight and he can run the show as they turn the corner in his junior year.

Andrew Fleming is what Andrew Fleming is. No surprises here, he didn't regress with the coaching change, so you can plug in his 10 points and 6 rebounds a night and know it should consistently be there.

And do you want the biggest, most impactful positive? Bob Walsh and Ted Woodward are not on the coaching staff and are no longer in the state of Maine. Richard Barron will not get outcoached and outschemed in every game like in the past.


"Linguist": I knew my criticism about playing players too many minutes so far this in Barrons first year at the helm based on what I have complained about in the past with Walsh's mass substitutions. However, my complaint now is how can you know which players can really play in games when you are not using more players in non-conference games to evaluate your talent available. I did not ever complain about playing players more minutes in non-conference games under Walsh, it was in the conference games that it bothered me.

Remember this is a first year situation for Barron and not a 2, 3 or 4 year situation like Walsh was playing intramural basketball with all the playing time divided up between 10 players.

If this is the only criticism you have of my evaluation of negative results so far then I will take it, like you gave it too me. You are correct, but for the wrong reasons as I explained above about non-conference game minutes versus conference game minutes.
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Re: Princeton Men 73 Maine men 59

Postby bcbc55 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:50 pm

Uconnball wrote:"1 - bcbc55 - Are you really complaining about the minutes? Aren't you the one for 4 years who harped on Walsh for playing too many players not enough minutes? Now the rotation is tightened down and Barron is playing his best players the bulk of the minutes and you are still unhappy? How exactly would a UMaine basketball coach please you? Let go of the grudge and stop beating the dead horse. Please bury the hatchet.
"

Thank You.... Linguist.....Well said!!!!!


"Uconnball": I explained my reasoning to "Linguist's" post if you are interested. I only complained about the mass substitutions under Walsh in the conference games, not the non-conference games. Linguist made it look like I complained about it all season long from start to finish. Non-conference games you evaluate your talent and conference games you play your best 7-8 players only.

No grudge, just a fan who has followed Maine basketball since the 50's and there is no hatchet to bury either.
Last edited by bcbc55 on Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Princeton Men 73 Maine men 59

Postby bcbc55 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:04 pm

Agree with most of the 9 responders posts on this thread so far for this season. All made valid points. Interesting too see the evaluations from different posters. 7 games down and 24 or 24 plus to go. 8 more non-conference games, 16 conference games and 1 at minimum AE tournament game if they don't finish 9th in the final conference regular season standings which they shouldn't.

Thanks for all 9 who responded to the thread so far. It would be great if posters give positive solutions to any negative criticisms they post. That way we all benefit from the criticism. Most of this material is just opinions and like noses everyone has one. Agree to disagree in a positive manner and that will make for a pleasant season regardless of Maine's W-L record.

After all aren't we all just Monday morning quarterbacks, oops I mean Monday Morning point guards????????????????

And after all isn't hindsight 20/20?????????????????????????
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Re: Princeton Men 73 Maine men 59

Postby mario_spaghettio » Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:40 pm

Richard "the Robber" Barron will never have a winning record coaching Maine men's basketball. He will however continue to preach patience as he cashes those checks. :lol:
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Re: Princeton Men 73 Maine men 59

Postby basketball_guy » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:01 pm

I have no response as Maine is 0-6 and I know little about Barron. They let Simon go...and I thought he
would have been the logical candidate to take over. However, I think you need to give Barron a couple
years and let him make this his team before making derogatory remarks...or any remarks about the personnel.
He did not inherit too much talent Mario.
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Re: Princeton Men 73 Maine men 59

Postby UMaineSuperfan » Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:48 pm

Mario (who is the wooooooorst) is actually right about Barron likely not having a winning record while coaching at Maine...for his "career". He'll rack up a boatload of losses this year that would take 6 or 7 solid seasons in a row to counteract, but to say Barron will never go like 16-14 seems a bit unrealistic. If Ted Woodward can do it, anyone can, in theory.

I think if Barron can get this team to where they're consistently competitive, that's a huge win. We just can't totally and completely suck and have 2-4 D1 players on the roster. No reason we can't be competent. Maine hasn't had a roster full of actual D1 talent since Woodward was on campus.

I look at it this way: what's the starting five and impact supporting cast going to look like next conference season? If they can put together a competent squad at that point, with a somewhat complete and hopefully healthy roster, that to me suggests we're on the right track.
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Re: Princeton Men 73 Maine men 59

Postby bcbc55 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:31 pm

basketball_guy wrote:I have no response as Maine is 0-6 and I know little about Barron. They let Simon go...and I thought he
would have been the logical candidate to take over. However, I think you need to give Barron a couple
years and let him make this his team before making derogatory remarks...or any remarks about the personnel.
He did not inherit too much talent Mario.


"basketball_guy": Barron deserves 3 years to turn around this program as it took him3 years to turn the Maine women's program around. Two seasons of 4 and 6 wins and then went 17-15 the third year and then two 20 win seasons in seasons 4 and 5. The Men's program is in as bad a shape as the women's was when he took over the women's job.

He may have not inherited too much talent but half (8) of the 16 payers are new recruits by this new staff. There 2 best players so far are players held over from last year Juniors Fleming and White and then have a freshmen recruit from Portland a true freshmen in Terion Moss who has made his teammates better when he is on the court.

"So time and patience and neither come in a bottle".

However, there is certainly nothing wrong with MBR Maine D-1 Athletic posters to be negative and criticize so long as they offer positive solutions to the negativism and criticism and agree to disagree with other fans who post here on this site.

Currently what is hurting them badly is giving up 74 points a game defensively and only averaging 58 points a game offensively because they have shot the ball very poorly in the 0-7 record so far.

FG% 41%, 3 pt % 25.8%, foul shooting 55% and % of FGA's as 3's is 41%. 41% of FGA's as 3's is way too many when you can't at least shoot 30% to 33% on three's. Also, shooting just 55% from the line and only getting 9 plus foul shot attempts is just not going to win many games. Never had high school teams shoot those poor of shooting stats for 7 games in a row.

Also, agree that they should have opened the job up and then if Barron was the best candidate then hire him, but to give him a 5 year contract at a very good salary without competition for the job just doesn't seem fair to the program overall without opening it up.

UMaine is a land grant public institution not a private college. Bob Simons (former UMaine assistant for Walsh last year) and Chris Markwood (former South Portland high school star and former Vermont men's assistant and currently an assistant at Northeastern) would have been good candidates to measure Barron against seeing that they had men's experience and Barron didn't at Maine. Also, do not know who else might have applied too.

Also, Barron is only the 2nd women's college D-1 coach to ever get a men's D-1 head job at the same school out of 353 D-1 programs. Big difference in coaching men's and women's D-1 basketball. None of his assistant coaches had any D-1 men's experience prior to their hiring. In fact, Maine not is the only D-1 men's program to have a former women's D-1 head coach as their head coach they also have the only female assistant D-1 coach in the country.

So I think this puts added pressure on the entire coaching staff not only on Barron as the head man.

Just my opinion for what little it is worth. But, being a taxpayer that funds UMaine men's basketball, I like to see things done professionally, not politically and opening up the job was the right thing to do, which Maine didn't so that puts a en's prograt more pressure on the coaching staff let alone the players that they have recruited for this year.

I wish Coach Barron, his staff and his players good luck the rest of the non-conference and conference schedules.

Now the Maine men's basketball program has to play with the hand that it was dealt at least for this season with what returning 8 players and the 8 new recruits and a brand new complete coaching staff.
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Re: Princeton Men 73 Maine men 59

Postby BlueLine » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:13 pm

Well,
The present configuration of the team will not outscore many opponents on the schedule. Some good points being made on this forum, most importantly for success:
1. Better on ball defense 2. Better close out defense on shooters, in that shooters should be forced off the 3 point line and into a secondary offensive move. Letting a team shooting 20 or more 3s, to shoot 50% or more from behind the line will result in many losses.

Cultural change in basketball typically manifests in consistent application and effort of core defensive principles. If wins and losses are put aside as the penultimate measurement standard, defensive improvement, which can be operationalized by a few key metrics, should certainly be used.
All my best to this Maine program.
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