Is it too soon to fire Barron

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Re: Is it too soon to fire Barron

Postby Rams1998 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:30 pm

Re: Is it too soon to fire Barron
Postby Justabasketballfan » 15 Jan 2019 17:42

I said I was going to move on, too.
But, you persist.
A D2 coach has 10 full ATHLETIC Scholarships to award.
Most programs have 14 or fewer players on their rosters.
That means, at a bare minimum, a coach will give out 6 full scholarships and split the other 4 up between 8 players. Yes, 6 full scholarships plus 8 half ones equals 14 players.
Most D2 teams' rosters have fewer than 14 players. About half of them have only 12 players. So, 8 fulls, 4 halfs.
The math is simple.
Does anyone think D2 programs don't award all 10 scholarships? Not if they want to be competitive.
A DII basketball player receiving solely athletic scholarship money to cover all costs is decidedly NOT rare. It's the norm.
All I've been trying to do is to bring some real insight, based on first-hand knowledge, into the discussion.
It's not only my AAU experience that I base this on. It's from relationships, even friendships, with more than a few D2 coaches/administrators, etc.
I'm sorry, Rams1998 that you know so much that you won't accept what goes on in the real world of college basketball.
I'll stop trying to bring reality into your thought process.


"There are 312 Division 2 colleges across 45 different states. Typically, these are smaller public and private universities with under 10,000 students. All scholarships at the NCAA DII level are equivalency scholarships, which mean the majority are partial scholarships. However, you can still get a full-scholarship at the D2 level when you find the right school."
https://www.athleticscholarships.net/di ... chools.htm

I've never said full scholarships don't happen, only that the majority of the scholarships are partials. I've also posted resource after resource backing this up. You also keep misquoting me; of course they use all ten scholarships. By breaking them up, they have more "scholarship" players.

Finally, since your last post was a touch more snarky than your others, I'll respond in kind....

You told me you wanted to bring me into "reality". In your reality, your friendships and relationships are "first hand" experience and the fact that I've spent 15 years coaching and recruiting college athletes is not.

It's fine. I wasn't looking to make any enemies. Someone asked why a kid was playing D3 when he may have had D2 talent. Since it's pretty common for D3s to beat D2s financially (PARTICULARLY NE-10 schools), I answered based on my experience. You don't think I know what I'm talking about. It is what it is.

I promise I am ending my part in the hijacking of this thread. Hopefully, the Black Bears improve so we don't spend days talking about D2 scholarships on their message board.
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Re: Is it too soon to fire Barron

Postby Justabasketballfan » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:20 am

Since, Rams1988, you continue to provide faulty information.
I recently attended a men's/women's doubleheader of Division 2 basketball.
I asked all four coaches ... two men's coaches/two women's coaches ... about their scholarship situation.

Of the four, two programs had 8 players on full scholarships, two had 7 players on full scholarships.

The remaining scholarships (two or three) were divided. The consensus among the four coaches I spoke to that day was that every school in the NE-10, had no fewer than 6 full scholarship players and that the majority had either 7 or 8. The commentary was that if D2 coaches didn't award at least two full scholarships annually, they wouldn't be able to bring in the type players it took to win games.
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Re: Is it too soon to fire Barron

Postby Rams1998 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:29 pm

I haven’t continued to do anything. I thought this was done. Here’s a passage copied (today) from the NE-10’s website: “Almost none of the 80,000 student-athletes competing in Division II this year will receive a full athletics grant that covers all of their expenses, but most of them will receive some financial aid to help them through school. For the rest of their expenses, they’re on their own – using scholarships, student loans and employment earnings just like most other students attending college”. This passage is exactly the point I’ve been making, but you’re telling me that four coaches told you that this information is incorrect in the very same conference.

For the final time, my point is not that basketball players aren’t going to school for free. My point is that basketball isn’t (in most cases) paying their entire cost of attendance, which would be the definition of a full athletic scholarship.

The NE-10’s own website says “almost none” receive full boats. You claim you saw 30 full boat kids in one day.

If I’m “providing faulty information”, so is NCAA.com, every online recruiting/scholarship resource, and the NE-10 and PSAC websites. Not to mention my own personal experience recruiting college athletes for over 10 years.

I concede. You’re right. I’m wrong. Kudos.
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Re: Is it too soon to fire Barron

Postby basketball_guy » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:50 pm

This thread is supposed to be about maine Basketball and Richard Barron, not a bunch of stuff on Division 2 basketball :roll:

Start a thread on Division 2 basketball
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Re: Is it too soon to fire Barron

Postby Rams1998 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:58 pm

I agree; I said I wasn’t going to pollute this thread anymore, but I’m too stupid to keep my mouth shut. At least I can admit it.

Maybe someone should post about Barron though. Aside from our discussion, this thread has been dead.
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Re: Is it too soon to fire Barron

Postby MaineBBFan99 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:06 pm

The original premise of this thread - suggesting that Barron should be fired after just his first four regular season games - was flat out ridiculous. It also was initiated by one of the most notorious trolls on this site.

I would say this topic is dead for now.
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Re: Is it too soon to fire Barron

Postby Rams1998 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:53 pm

Very ridiculous indeed
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Re: Is it too soon to fire Barron

Postby Justabasketballfan » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:30 am

At least your math is good, Ram1988. Yes, I saw 30 full-boat D2 basketball players, from four teams (average of 7.5 per team), in one day.
That wasn't my observation. The information came directly from the coaches involved. Can there be better sources than that?

And yes, this is a ridiculous thread on two fronts:
1) A fire Barron thread? Talk about the height of ridiculousness.

2) Ram1988 is dead wrong about scholarship giving levels for D2 basketball programs. Coaches at that level have 10 scholarships to give. Most only have 12- or 13-player rosters. Do the math. Seven full rides, plus 6 half rides ... that's 13 players. Do you really think they don't give out all the available scholarship money? If so, you're living in a fabricated world.
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Re: Is it too soon to fire Barron

Postby waltwhite » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:29 pm

No
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