Maine men's BB teams comback falls short to SB 71-70

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Re: Maine men's BB teams comback falls short to SB 71-70

Postby bcbc55 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:35 pm

Maine19Fan wrote:Who are you kidding? Your limited college knowledge is showing.

At the college level, everything is done at full speed. Try playing that way for four or five minutes and not being winded.
The very best teams everywhere only play their best players 32/33 minutes per game, and most of the players 25/26 minutes per game.

Fresh players always are half-a-step quicker than tired ones.

Again, you question how Walsh might coach ... without having a clue. Why don't you call him and ask about his practice plans? Better yet, attend a practice and see for yourself.

Vermont, the best team in AE, only has one player who averages more than 30 mpg. Albany goes nine deep every game.

Even though Calixte played the full 40 minutes vs. SB, he still only averages 31 minutes per game.

High School kids play 32-minute games. They don't have to play as hard, particularly on the defensive end.
That extra eight minutes on the college level, in an intense competitive situation, is huge.

What you know might have been true for h.s. sports a couple of generations ago. It's not remotely close to being true on the D1 college level.
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Re: Maine men's BB teams comback falls short to SB 71-70

Postby Maine19Fan » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:19 pm

All I can say is ... are you kidding?

Let's see: you don't need to ask Walsh how he coaches, or to attend a practice to find out why his team does things ... because you already know that the "inmates run the asylum."
Yeah, right.

College level players play every second at full speed. Every possession is important. Playing defense takes a ton out a player's wind, not only with the constant movement required to guard, but to provide help defense. Offenses like to move up court quickly, and rarely stands still in the half court.
At the college level, there is no time on the court to catch a breather.
It takes a lot out of even the most-conditioned players.
This isn't mediocre high school basketball to from which any perspective about the sport that you have comes from.

You're advocating for players to be on the court for more than 32/33 minutes each. No team anywhere, unless it is dealing with injury issues, uses players as much as you advocate.

If you'd even take a look at playing times not only in the AE, the MAAC, the Ivy League, the Patriot League ... heck, even high-major leagues, too ... you'd see that, rather than using your own very fertile imagination to think you know more about player fatigue than real college coaches.
A fresh player is a better player than a fatigued one.
Even you'd probably agree with that (although I doubt it).

Good teams play at 75% speed? No, bad ones do.
Your high school teams might have played at 75% speed. That's probably all they needed. Defensive, at the h.s. level, isn't as demanding physically (lesser talent), h.s. school teams rarely play up-tempo offense because they don't have enough quality talent to avoid making mistakes playing at that pace.

Fast teams most definitely can make slow teams play faster. It happens all the time. Fast-paced teams that rebound and get out in transition force the slow team to play faster.

I'm not talking about out-of-control play. I'm talking about intensive play at all time at both ends of the court, the type that brings about fatigue. Again, this isn't the 32-minute, slow-it-down h.s. level at which you coached at 100 years ago.

And, remind us about how many D1 teams are "farm league teams for the NBA."

Considering only 60 players get drafted annually ... and, that there are 350+ D1 teams nationally ... how many of those D1 programs are actually producing NBA players?
OK, considering free agents, etc., maybe 100 to 120 players come out of college annually and actually play at all in the NBA. And, that figure is probably high.

Teams at our level ... AE, MAAC, Patriot League, the Ivy League, even the CAA, etc ... almost never produce anything resembling a pro player.
How many players have come out of those leagues in the last decade that have played in the NBA?
You probably can count them on one hand.
So, how is that a farm-league for the NBA?

Yes, you're entitled to your opinion ... even if you're wrong. You're wrong on this issue, among many others.

My opinion, yes. But, based on many years around actual college basketball and through knowing dozens of current/former D1 coaches, administrators, etc.

Your entire life has been around no level higher than mediocre high school basketball.

So, where's does your perspective/insight come from relative to the college level?

You admit that you won't even go to a college practice. And, you won't make a phone call to talk basketball with anyone at Maine ... because they'd hang up on you!!!
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Re: Maine men's BB teams comback falls short to SB 71-70

Postby bcbc55 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:46 pm

Maine19Fan wrote:All I can say is ... are you kidding?

Let's see: you don't need to ask Walsh how he coaches, or to attend a practice to find out why his team does things ... because you already know that the "inmates run the asylum."
Yeah, right.

College level players play every second at full speed. Every possession is important. Playing defense takes a ton out a player's wind, not only with the constant movement required to guard, but to provide help defense. Offenses like to move up court quickly, and rarely stands still in the half court.
At the college level, there is no time on the court to catch a breather.
It takes a lot out of even the most-conditioned players.
This isn't mediocre high school basketball to from which any perspective about the sport that you have comes from.

You're advocating for players to be on the court for more than 32/33 minutes each. No team anywhere, unless it is dealing with injury issues, uses players as much as you advocate.

If you'd even take a look at playing times not only in the AE, the MAAC, the Ivy League, the Patriot League ... heck, even high-major leagues, too ... you'd see that, rather than using your own very fertile imagination to think you know more about player fatigue than real college coaches.
A fresh player is a better player than a fatigued one.
Even you'd probably agree with that (although I doubt it).

Good teams play at 75% speed? No, bad ones do.
Your high school teams might have played at 75% speed. That's probably all they needed. Defensive, at the h.s. level, isn't as demanding physically (lesser talent), h.s. school teams rarely play up-tempo offense because they don't have enough quality talent to avoid making mistakes playing at that pace.

Fast teams most definitely can make slow teams play faster. It happens all the time. Fast-paced teams that rebound and get out in transition force the slow team to play faster.

I'm not talking about out-of-control play. I'm talking about intensive play at all time at both ends of the court, the type that brings about fatigue. Again, this isn't the 32-minute, slow-it-down h.s. level at which you coached at 100 years ago.

And, remind us about how many D1 teams are "farm league teams for the NBA."

Considering only 60 players get drafted annually ... and, that there are 350+ D1 teams nationally ... how many of those D1 programs are actually producing NBA players?
OK, considering free agents, etc., maybe 100 to 120 players come out of college annually and actually play at all in the NBA. And, that figure is probably high.

Teams at our level ... AE, MAAC, Patriot League, the Ivy League, even the CAA, etc ... almost never produce anything resembling a pro player.
How many players have come out of those leagues in the last decade that have played in the NBA?
You probably can count them on one hand.
So, how is that a farm-league for the NBA?

Yes, you're entitled to your opinion ... even if you're wrong. You're wrong on this issue, among many others.

My opinion, yes. But, based on many years around actual college basketball and through knowing dozens of current/former D1 coaches, administrators, etc.

Your entire life has been around no level higher than mediocre high school basketball.

So, where's does your perspective/insight come from relative to the college level?

You admit that you won't even go to a college practice. And, you won't make a phone call to talk basketball with anyone at Maine ... because they'd hang up on you!!!


19: You could hsve fooled me as that the Maine men play that all out fast paced game that you say D-1 college basketball is all about. It hasn't been to successful for the men has it? Maybe they are not playing all out hard enough for you and not using enough substitutes as they have 12 players averaging double figure minutes.

By your philosophy of hard play is not being played by the women's team at UMaine and they must not be playing hard enough as they have only 8 players averaging double figure minutes an they record is 6-6 compared to the men's 1-13 and the women's S0S is 25 and the men's SOS is 304.

Oh I know the difference is the size of the women's ball's diameter is only 8 and one/half inches compared to the men's ball at 9 inches in diameter. Therefore the women don't have to work as hard as the men do. But wait, the court is still 94 by 50 from both the men's and women's team as the rim is the same at 10 feet from the foor and the rim is still 18 inches in diameter for both teams.

The Maine women's team plays at a more controlled pace offensively then the men do and they play the game more from the shoulders up then the men do. The women's team plays more of basketball players playing basketball then the men do as they rely on what athletic skills that they have. And again the women have played a much tougher schedule then the men have and look who has been the most successful and neither team has an inside game or an inside outside game. Both teams live and die by the three as the men are taking 44.4!% of their field goal attempts as 3's and the women take 42.7% of there FGA's as threes. Men shooting 29.6% from beyond the arc and the women are shooting 31.2%.

Subtract both teams 2 non D-1 games and their 3 shooting point % are lower as follows. Men shooting 28.1% for 3's and the women ares shooting 29.7%.
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Re: Maine men's BB teams comback falls short to SB 71-70

Postby thebam » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:07 pm

The best player in college basketball plays 32 minutes per game.
Just as a point of reference.
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Re: Maine men's BB teams comback falls short to SB 71-70

Postby bcbc55 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:10 pm

thebam wrote:The best player in college basketball plays 32 minutes per game.
Just as a point of reference.


thebam: Thanks for that info. Wait until the conference games get going and then watch it increase more when the conferenece tournaments start and then again in the big dance for the 68 teams that make it.
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Re: Maine men's BB teams comback falls short to SB 71-70

Postby thebam » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:23 pm

bcbc55 wrote:Good teams best players usually 2 or 3 play 35 minutes at least a game and the other starters play 30 minutes. Just look up their minutes played per game average.


So, I did this. I took the Top 10 scoring offenses in the country. Assuming these are the teams that really get up and down the floor as they average anywhere from 88 to 95 points per game. Here are the numbers for their leading player in minutes per game ranked from highest offensive output thru #10 offensive output.

1. Oklahoma 32.5 Minutes per game.
2. Duke 31.9 MPG
3. Portland St 34.5
4. Creighton 29.8
5. Gonzaga 32.2
6. Arizona St. 35.6
7. UNLV 33.2
8. Arkansas 30.5
9. Marshall 23.5
10. Nova 31.1

So, out of the Top 10 scoring offenses in the country, the most average minutes per game any player logs is less than 35.
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Re: Maine men's BB teams comback falls short to SB 71-70

Postby Maine19Fan » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:27 pm

Oh, and the 32-minute per game evidence doesn't meet bcbc55's approval.
So, now, it's "wait until the coference season begins."

What's next when that doesn't meet your theory?
Wait 'til next year?

Many thanks, thebam.

You prove my point ... not with a theory, or unsubstantive statement ... but with REAL statistics!!!

Bcbc55???
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Re: Maine men's BB teams comback falls short to SB 71-70

Postby bcbc55 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:38 pm

thebam wrote:
bcbc55 wrote:Good teams best players usually 2 or 3 play 35 minutes at least a game and the other starters play 30 minutes. Just look up their minutes played per game average.


So, I did this. I took the Top 10 scoring offenses in the country. Assuming these are the teams that really get up and down the floor as they average anywhere from 88 to 95 points per game. Here are the numbers for their leading player in minutes per game ranked from highest offensive output thru #10 offensive output.

1. Oklahoma 32.5 Minutes per game.
2. Duke 31.9 MPG
3. Portland St 34.5
4. Creighton 29.8
5. Gonzaga 32.2
6. Arizona St. 35.6
7. UNLV 33.2
8. Arkansas 30.5
9. Marshall 23.5
10. Nova 31.1

So, out of the Top 10 scoring offenses in the country, the most average minutes per game any player logs is less than 35.


thebam: Thanks for the info, but I will wait until the conference stats come out and then the big dance stats before I change my opinion on which good teams will play there 2 best players 35 minutes per game when the game mean something. Non conference schedule is nowhere near as important as the conference regular season and especially when it comes tourney time to get the automatic bid.

Then watch what happens when they get to the bid dance when it s one and done. Playing time wil inrcease for the best 2 players on each team that are in the big dance and even maybe in the NIT.
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Re: Maine men's BB teams comback falls short to SB 71-70

Postby thebam » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:13 pm

Come on Coach, you basically said to go look right now and the best players were over 35 minutes per game. Just admit you were and/ or are wrong on this? Good grief.
These are legit D-1 teams. They are playing ridiculously difficult non conference schedules and these are the numbers.! OU is 2 games into conference play already. It is what it is. Good teams have depth. That's the answer.
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Re: Maine men's BB teams comback falls short to SB 71-70

Postby bcbc55 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:20 pm

thebam wrote:Come on Coach, you basically said to go look right now and the best players were over 35 minutes per game. Just admit you were and/ or are wrong on this? Good grief.
These are legit D-1 teams. They are playing ridiculously difficult non conference schedules and these are the numbers.! OU is 2 games into conference play already. It is what it is. Good teams have depth. That's the answer.


thebam: OK my bad, if I mislead you, I apologize, I usually base my basketball strategies on the one and done season, but I stand by what will happen in the conference regular season games, conference tournament games and big dance games depth or no depth. The closer conference tournament games it gets in the conference regular season progresses watch what happens and then check to minutes played by the best 2 players on each team as they get them ready for the conference tournies to get the automatic bid and then in the big dance if they should get there as an at large bid if they don;t win their conerence tourney and the automatic bid. Things change in the one and done season..
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