Maine19Fan: Your real name and bb experience please.

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Re: Maine19Fan: Your real name and bb experience please.

Postby Maine19Fan » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:54 pm

Pretty clear, Lenny, all you're trying to do is to be argumentative without purpose. Maybe it's time you sign off from posting.

You want to discuss basketball, fine.

Let's start with this: No high school coach is ready to step directly from that situation to coaching a D1 team. NONE, no one. I'll await your lost of those that did.
Those 22 (of 68) NCAA Tournament coaches from 2014? All served fairly lengthy apprenticeships as assistants. I'm not saying that doesn't happen. I'm saying that NO h.s. coach is prepared to immediately step into a head coaching position at the D1 level. Not even bcbc55. And, probably not even you.

Yes, the deal when applying to be the head coach at Maine, the candidates know the impediments/handicaps.
That's why the pool of candidates when there's an opening is so limited. It's not because the school didn't do an intensive search for potential coaches. It's because of those obstacles that the field of those interested is extremely limited.

Yeah, Walsh knew the obstacles. But, it's tough to pass up the chance to move from the D3 level to D1. First, he probably doubled his salary going from D3 to D1. I'll stand corrected if that's not the case, but most D3 coaches make in the $50K or $60K range. I could check on this if you'd like. I know people connected to Walsh who would know exactly what his salary was at Rhode Island College.

How was he not an attractive candidate? Extremely successful at the D3 level, and in the region. Had recruiting contacts regionally in place already. Good guy, great representative of the program. Did anyone on this board gripe about how Maine made a bad hire when he was hired? Did you? Did 55?

Walsh is unable to retain talent for the same reason he'd leave if he had the opportunity ... a chance to play at a higher level. Walsh assuredly saw Maine as a stepping stone if he had any success. Players, too, aspire to play at a higher level. I'll leave it to you to go back and look at every player who transferred out to see how many didn't leave to move up competitively.

Walsh's plan failed? How about the entire situation is a failure? Location, extreme lack of resources, low level of mid-major basketball, etc.
I think he tried to think outside the box with transfers, foreign players, etc. It just isn't working. Can anything work at Maine? Has anything ever worked?
Could John Wooden have had success here? Only if he brought in Bill Walton, Lew Alcindor, etc.
Talent wins, plain and simple.
It is extremely difficult to bring talent to our state's D1 program, plain and simple.

So, what do we do? Bring in ol' 55 to be the coach?

Yes, to those who chose D1 coaching as their profession can only come to one conclusion about coming to Maine: It is an extremely difficult place at which to win. No one has done it consistently. Again, it's why no current D1 head coach or any D1 assistant at a decent level who makes more than Maine pays its head coach will consider the position.

And, 123 posts? Guess I've got some catching up to do. Bcbc55 has close to 10,000, give or take. You've got close to 700.
I'll try harder!!!

In truth, my posting probably won't be as often in coming days. I think my disagreements with 55 have run their course, until he posts something else that makes very little sense.

And, I'm not likely to continue responding to someone whose posts serve only to be argumentative. Posts like yours are why college coaches don't pay attention to message boards!
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Re: Maine19Fan: Your real name and bb experience please.

Postby LennyH » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:10 pm

"Hello Pot, this is the Kettle speaking!" I didn't know Tom made you the moderator of the board and now you are allowed to determine who get's to post what and when?

Here, let me clarify the purpose of my posts, which I am sure most others have been able to figure out. You clearly came on the board because you felt the need to "argue" with bcbc15 about every thing he posts. Probably have been reading it for some time and simply couldn't take any more. (trust me that's understandable ;)

After reading you relentlessly doing this for two weeks, I felt like you were becoming the same hackneyed poster you ridiculed Cim for being, therefore, felt a little equal retribution was in order.

Argumentative?? Wow, have you taken a second to read your posts? You make statements and then when I call you on them, you simply "re-argue" (is that a word?) your same points never conceding that at the very least you misspoke. When it comes to being stubborn you and bc55 are one in the same.

Why would anyone gripe about the Walsh hire? As a matter of fact, I think successful people are successful wherever they go, more based on the characteristics they posses than the experiences they have had. I actually applauded at the time their willingness to think out side of the box. Do I think John Wooden would have had success at UMaine, yes I do, would it have looked different, of course, but by any measure it would have been successful.

So the question is what characteristic does Coach Walsh lack, which is not allowing his program to succeed? I like you do not believe it is his Coaching acumen that is causing the problems. Clearly a student of the game who understands the X and O's of what he is doing.

My biggest question would be why wasn't he able to build relationships with the players, once he got them here? You seem to have the "inside" information, maybe you know the answer. However, from "an outsiders" perspective watching him on the sidelines, I don't get the impression he has the "warm fuzzy" gene necessary to maintain the personal relationships it would take to keep the kids from jumping once they are here.

Was there a plan in place after getting players who could compete to do everything to keep them here? To do that you would need nurture and build connections beyond the basketball court, its all about relationsihps, again we don't know if there was even a plan, if so what was it?

Unfortunately, he has little recruiting pitch left - early on, the program was changing and these players could be part of something different, something new. That's gone now - how is anyone from the program going to have ANY creditability with recruits - besides all the other obstacles Maine has, the current regime now has their record over the past 4 years to add to that - sorry but that's not going to get it done.

Finally, since you are the self proclaimed king of analytics - 700 posts over 8 years = 1 post every 4-5 days at your current rate you will have 36,400 or so posts over the same time period, I don't think you need to try any harder at all!

Still to come - my theory about who M19F identity is, why he is so reluctant to share and his purpose for all the posting...
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Re: Maine19Fan: Your real name and bb experience please.

Postby Maine19Fan » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:15 pm

Can't wait for Lenny's "theory." Hope it's a better one than most of those posted by a certain other contributor.
But, that's doubtful!

And, Lenny ... as usual, you are making assumptions without evidence.
Someone tipped me off to this forum a few months ago. Just decided to try to bring a little expertise/perspective to the debates.
You've got this right, though: I have difficulty seeing convoluted and unsupported theories and any variety of ludicrous assumptions made by individuals who really don't know.
Bcbc55 isn't the only poster who falls into that category.

The rest of your questions... I stopped reading, at that point!
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Re: Maine19Fan: Your real name and bb experience please.

Postby LennyH » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:48 pm

Maine19Fan wrote:Can't wait for Lenny's "theory." Hope it's a better one than most of those posted by a certain other contributor.
But, that's doubtful!

The rest of your questions... I stopped reading, at that point!


If you stopped reading, how did you know what the final line of the post referenced?

Don't bother answering, I think we all know the truth. Just like I knew you would actually respond to me again, even though you said you wouldn't.

I have notice a "water downed" tone in your other posts so that's nice to see. Since I don't want to become guilty (I probably already am) for the same thing I charged you with, in terms of "piling" on - I will be done with this thread.

Please enjoy your time on MBR and remember "civil discourse" is one of the great traits our country was founded on - unfortunately it seems to becoming a foreign concept to many in today's society...
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Re: Maine19Fan: Your real name and bb experience please.

Postby Maine19Fan » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:03 pm

You know the answer? Pretty clear you don't have many of those.

I await your "theory" about why I've been critical of 55. You keep promising ... but you don't deliver.
Have at it.
I'm sure it will be yet another "answer" you don't have.

You appreciate my "water downed" posts (should be "watered down," by the way)? ... well, I am just so very glad to have drawn your approval.
My new approach is entirely your doing, of course.
Note the sarcasm.

Oh, I said that I wouldn't respond? What I said is that I wasn't likely to respond. There is a difference, don't you know?
One is a certainty, the other one merely a possibility.


And, you're done with this thread?
Now, that's a "certainty."
Will you keep your word?
We can only hope.

Then, some of us can get back to debating basketball rather than this juvenile give-and-take that you seem to enjoy more than our favorite sport.

After having to read some of your posts, it will almost be a pleasure to go back to my disagreements with ol' 55.
Maine19Fan
 
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Re: Maine19Fan: Your real name and bb experience please.

Postby MaineBBFan99 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:29 pm

Wow, that escalated quickly. Can we get back to a substantive discussion of basketball philosophy? Bcbc posted statistics regarding the Maine teams' three point percentages, and 19 requested that he provide context for those figures (comparison to other AEast team's, other D-1 team's, and historical percentages). That kind of back and forth actually improves the level of debate on this site. Personal attacks like questioning 19's credentials or casting doubt on bcbc's ability to coach at the D-1 level do no such thing and grow old very quickly.
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Re: Maine19Fan: Your real name and bb experience please.

Postby bcbc55 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:47 pm

MaineBBFan99 wrote:Wow, that escalated quickly. Can we get back to a substantive discussion of basketball philosophy? Bcbc posted statistics regarding the Maine teams' three point percentages, and 19 requested that he provide context for those figures (comparison to other AEast team's, other D-1 team's, and historical percentages). That kind of back and forth actually improves the level of debate on this site. Personal attacks like questioning 19's credentials or casting doubt on bcbc's ability to coach at the D-1 level do no such thing and grow old very quickly.


19: I have posted the Maine men's and women's 3 point %, 2 point %, combined 2's and 3's %. % of 3's attempted of the total FGA's and have posted the 3 point % of the other 9 men's AE teams along with each teams percentage of 3's of their FGAs along wth their won-lost records and RPI standings.

With Maine being the only men's team under 30% for threes, their 44.4% of FGA's being 3's correlate very well with their 1-11 D-1 won lost record compared to the other 8 AE men's teams. Their stats would be even lower if the UMPI and UMM non D-1 games were not included. Maine's offensive system has not been very successful in getting them open threes. By the way the women are also running the same offensive system to get their 3's ( Men got the system fro the women.s team) is that a coincidence that both are currently 20 for 115 combined in their last two game each for a 3 point percetage of 17.4% along with taking 115 3 point attempts of 240 FGA's for 47.8%

Also, the team with most wins in AE with 11 look at their use of the three only 25% OF THEIR FGA'S HAVE BEEN THREES compared to Maine men's 44.4% and 11 losses.

Maybe the Maine basketball teams should re-evaluate their over use and abuse of the 3 point shot. As it is quite obvious that both teams are currently lin and dying by the three.
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Re: Maine19Fan: Your real name and bb experience please.

Postby LennyH » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:44 pm

MaineBBFan99 wrote:Wow, that escalated quickly. Can we get back to a substantive discussion of basketball philosophy? Bcbc posted statistics regarding the Maine teams' three point percentages, and 19 requested that he provide context for those figures (comparison to other AEast team's, other D-1 team's, and historical percentages). That kind of back and forth actually improves the level of debate on this site. Personal attacks like questioning 19's credentials or casting doubt on bcbc's ability to coach at the D-1 level do no such thing and grow old very quickly.


I will respond to this message - I made no personal attacks, I just got a little tired of the negative attacks on bcbc15 - M19F had some great points, but chose to disparage Cim during the process, which I felt was uncalled for. I thought and still feel turnabout is fair play and there were no personal attacks, simply questioned his inconsistencies.

The argument about "too many 3's or not enough 3's" is really irrelevant in terms of comparing to what other teams are doing. A coaches job is to determine what is "best" for his team and talent, not worrying about what other teams are doing. The real question is, with the talent on the roster, is the Maine Coaching staff's approach the correct one? I would argue yes it is, look at the roster and talent - they have no credible inside presence or a "scorer" with an intermediate offensive game. Their inability to recruit and KEEP talent have left the team with very few options. I would say if the choose any other "game plan" it would not be "live or die" it would simply be "die"....
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Re: Maine19Fan: Your real name and bb experience please.

Postby MaineBBFan99 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:17 pm

The real question is, with the talent on the roster, is the Maine Coaching staff's approach the correct one?


100% agree. For the Maine women's team, the answer is absolutely yes. I will defer to others on this board with more knowledge about the men's team.

Didn't think you launched any personal attacks, Lenny; I was just tired of the direction in which this conversation was going.

Also, curious to hear your theory about 19's frequent posts.
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Re: Maine19Fan: Your real name and bb experience please.

Postby Maine19Fan » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:05 pm

Will wonders never cease? An insightful post from LennyH?

Yes, indeed, a coach's job is to determine what works best with the talent available.
For Walsh to do something different than what he's doing, with a huge dearth of quality post players, would indeed make things even worse than they are.
Let's give credit to Division 1 coaches, who do do this on a full-time basis for knowing what's best for their respective teams.

As for disparaging 55: Your perception does the same, just with less vitriol. 55's theories are rooted in what worked at the h.s. level 40 years ago. He coached with an unyielding philosophy, according to his own posts, that didn't bend based on his personnel. He could have had a team of Stephen Curry-type players and still demanded trying to pound the ball inside to post players.

Seriously, I don't mean to negatively attack 55. But, considering some of the convoluted theories he not only passes off as the way basketball should be, and to steadfastly try to counter any disagreement ... he invites criticism.
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