WBB: Maine vs Kennesaw State University 11/26, 2:30 PM

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Re: WBB: Maine vs Kennesaw State University 11/26, 2:30 PM

Postby bcbc55 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:25 pm

Lindquist: Thanks for pointing out my mistake. I will change it to 1-6.

We all make mistakes, and my pencil's eraser often rips the paper.
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Re: WBB: Maine vs Kennesaw State University 11/26, 2:30 PM

Postby mainah57 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:49 pm

@BCBC, please see page 5 here: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/ForSIDs/Policies.pdf

Based on this policy document, DIII and NAIA games *are* countable for statistics & records.

Per 20.9.8.1 of the 2017-2018 Division I Manual, "An institution may schedule and play not more than four basketball games, including any contest (e.g., scrimmage, exhibition), in an academic year against institutions that are not members of Division I."

It seems this rule is in place to prevent a team from scheduling too many non-DI opponents (Maine men actually ran into this issue a few seasons ago: http://bangordailynews.com/2014/01/10/s ... ncaa-rule/), but the fact remains that Maine's record is 4-2 and Kennesaw State's record is 2-6. Do you think that every media outlet just happens to be reporting incorrect information about every college basketball program?
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Re: WBB: Maine vs Kennesaw State University 11/26, 2:30 PM

Postby bcbc55 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:29 pm

mainah57 wrote:@BCBC, please see page 5 here: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/ForSIDs/Policies.pdf

Based on this policy document, DIII and NAIA games *are* countable for statistics & records.

Per 20.9.8.1 of the 2017-2018 Division I Manual, "An institution may schedule and play not more than four basketball games, including any contest (e.g., scrimmage, exhibition), in an academic year against institutions that are not members of Division I."

It seems this rule is in place to prevent a team from scheduling too many non-DI opponents (Maine men actually ran into this issue a few seasons ago: http://bangordailynews.com/2014/01/10/s ... ncaa-rule/), but the fact remains that Maine's record is 4-2 and Kennesaw State's record is 2-6. Do you think that every media outlet just happens to be reporting incorrect information about every college basketball program?


mainah57: Excellent research work on your part to prove your point.

I know that the media and schools can count them for wins and stats, but that is just a way of letting the D-1 schools to fatten their records and statistics against weaker non D-1 opponents.

How come they, THE NCAA (National Committee of Asscinine Arguments), change their minds and don't count non D-1 wins when it really counts in their final RPI's standings for the teams seeding in their Championship tournaments?

If it will help and make everyone concerned happy, I will be glad to count the games, but will definitely remind everyone that they don't count in the NCAA final RPI standings when they come out in early March.

Those non D-1 games for D-1 schools should be like the MPA regular 18 games that count towards the heal points tournament standings. Maine Principals Association do not count exhibition games or scrimmages in Heal Points, the MPA's version of RPI.
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Re: WBB: Maine vs Kennesaw State University 11/26, 2:30 PM

Postby MaineBBFan99 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:14 pm

How come they, THE NCAA (National Committee of Asscinine Arguments), change their minds and don't count non D-1 wins when it really counts in their final RPI's standings for the teams seeding in their Championship tournaments?


Because the RPI is only one of many factors used by the selection committee to determine the tournament field and the seedings. See the brief discussion about RPI about three-quarters of the way down the following article for further details: http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2017-03-12/march-madness-bracket-how-68-teams-are-selected-division-i.

Those non D-1 games for D-1 schools should be like the MPA regular 18 games that count towards the heal points tournament standings. Maine Principals Association do not count exhibition games or scrimmages in Heal Points, the MPA's version of RPI.


Wouldn't the high school analog to a D-1 college team playing a non D-1 team be, say, a class A team playing a class B team? Such games do count in both the preliminary and tournament index portions of the Heal Points structure, so I am not sure I see your point here.
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Re: WBB: Maine vs Kennesaw State University 11/26, 2:30 PM

Postby bcbc55 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:21 pm

MaineBBFan99 wrote:
How come they, THE NCAA (National Committee of Asscinine Arguments), change their minds and don't count non D-1 wins when it really counts in their final RPI's standings for the teams seeding in their Championship tournaments?


Because the RPI is only one of many factors used by the selection committee to determine the tournament field and the seedings. See the brief discussion about RPI about three-quarters of the way down the following article for further details: http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2017-03-12/march-madness-bracket-how-68-teams-are-selected-division-i.

Those non D-1 games for D-1 schools should be like the MPA regular 18 games that count towards the heal points tournament standings. Maine Principals Association do not count exhibition games or scrimmages in Heal Points, the MPA's version of RPI.


Wouldn't the high school analog to a D-1 college team playing a non D-1 team be, say, a class A team playing a class B team? Such games do count in both the preliminary and tournament index portions of the Heal Points structure, so I am not sure I see your point here.


MaineBBfan99: My point is that if you aren't going to count wins over non D-1 for RPI when a committee person wants to use them then why does the NCAA allow D-1 colleges to count count wins and losses (games) towards record and statistics.

The MPA allows teams to play inter class that counts towards their teams Heal Tournament points qualification but they could care less what schools do with their individual wins-- losses records and statistics in non countable tournament qualifying games.

Comparing the MPA and the NCAA is like comparing apples to oranges and that was the point I was trying to make.

If the NCAA is going to count wins and losses and statistics in games against non D-1 opponents (4 max) then why don't they be consistent and count them in the RPI that committee members may use in their individual selection of at large teams. (Why don't they make committee members to have to count RPI instead of having some do while others don't)?

That is inconsistency in the selection process when all the selection committee members do not have to use the same criteria in seeding the teams and picking the teams to fill the field of 68 teams.

The MPA is consistent in that they allow all teams to play different teams from different classes from each class.

They also have a numerical system to fill their field of post season teams not a selection committee like the NCAA where politics can be a factor.

Note: Before the heal points were used the SPA (State Principals Association had a selection committee like the NCAA does today.) They must have seen the possible politics in committee selections and maybe that is why they went to the heal point system because the heals eliminated everything accept figures. You know that many say "Figures don't lie.

They are not involved with non countable heal point games for records or statistics so they are not being inconsistent in doing one thing for records and statistics against non D-1 opponents and not another can count them in seedings like the NCAA.

I just don't think it is fair to either to count the non- D-1 games or not to count them. Just be consistent either do or don't. Don't split them up like the NCAA does.

The only consistent of the NCAA is, is that they are consistently inconsistent.

Just my opinion and like noses everyone has one.
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