WBB: Tip-Off Tournament vs Tulane 11/10, Harvard 11/11

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Re: WBB: Tip-Off Tournament vs Tulane 11/10, Harvard 11/11

Postby mainah57 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:19 am

Great win against Harvard today - nice to see the offensive potential of this team come together.

Tanesha is, in my opinion, the single most important player on Maine’s roster right now. She contributes in nearly every way (7 points / 7 rebounds / 8 assists / 3 steals in today's game and 13 points / 10 rebounds / 1 assist / 5 steals in yesterday's game). Seriously impressive. Even beyond the stats though, she creates so many opportunities for the team on the court, and is just a really fun player to watch all-around. Great to see her staying out of foul trouble, and able to play for most of both games (all 40 minutes of the Tulane game, in fact).

Blanca’s performance today pretty much speaks for itself - yes, she had the hot hand from the 3, but she was also scoring from inside as well and was outstanding defensively (as usual). If we can get both her and Tanesha on the court for the majority of each game and playing with offensive confidence like we saw today, I'm hoping they can lead this team during conference play. Based on what we've seen so far, I do think this team has the potential to hold its own in the America East.

Dor Saar also has me quite impressed. While she still has things to learn, she looks way more comfortable than I would generally have expected from a freshman playing in their first few collegiate games (and playing very significant minutes, no less). I don't want to speak too soon, but I can see her making a big impact on this team and program, even in her first year.

I will say it was nice to see some minutes from Barra as well - I think we'll continue to see her role grow as she develops more and more. It also has been satisfying to see Parise start to find her role on the team (that was a huge 3-pointer by her at the end of the 3rd quarter of the Tulane game, to put Maine up by two). I really enjoy rooting for her.

Cim, I know you're not a big fan of when teams rely heavily on the three. That's fine. I agree that teams need to be able to adjust when needed and find other ways to win on the nights when the 3s aren't falling (and that this is something Maine does need to focus on).

But, I would argue that you also need to play to your team's strengths (while also working on developing other strengths, to increase overall team versatility...). We are still just at game two of the regular season - isn't it possible that the couple freshman bigs who haven't been playing too much yet (mainly Williams and Carroll) are still working on some crucial things? The adjustment to D-I basketball may not be perfectly smooth for all athletes. There will be plenty of time for these newbies to develop and contribute, IMO.

As for mainejeff's comment around “D3 non-scholarship guards” getting too much PT... it is my understanding that all of our players are under scholarship, no? Or was this simply hyperbole? In either case, seems like folks on this board are (as usual) quick to throw around negative, targeted remarks after one or two rough games. For some of these kids, it is their first time getting significant minutes at this level of play. Props to those on this board who have been able to engage in constructive discussion without taking things to a place of constant negativity.

Hoping Maine can pull out Ws in its next two games against Bryant and UMFK - but more importantly, I'm hoping that by playing the wide range of teams that we'll be seeing in the next few months, the squad will ideally be that much more prepared come conference play in January. Looking forward to this week's games.
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Re: WBB: Tip-Off Tournament vs Tulane 11/10, Harvard 11/11

Postby MBRer » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:25 am

Maine Women's Hoops‏ @BlackBearsWBB
FINAL | Maine downs Harvard 76-51!
Blanca Millan finishes with 28 points on an INCREDIBLE 12-13 shooting from the field! She shot a perfect 4-4 from 3-point range. #BlackBearNation


Maine Women's Hoops‏
Recap | Millan’s Record-Breaking Performance Lifts Maine over Harvard, 76-51
#BlackBearNation
Details: http://bit.ly/2zD60Gl


UMaine Women's Basketball Earns First win of the Season
- http://www.wabi.tv/content/sports/UMain ... 49223.html

Millan's big night leads Maine past Harvard 76-51
http://www.foxbangor.com/sports/item/22 ... -mount-ida
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Re: WBB: Tip-Off Tournament vs Tulane 11/10, Harvard 11/11

Postby bcbc55 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:56 am

mainah57 wrote:Great win against Harvard today - nice to see the offensive potential of this team come together.

Tanesha is, in my opinion, the single most important player on Maine’s roster right now. She contributes in nearly every way (7 points / 7 rebounds / 8 assists / 3 steals in today's game and 13 points / 10 rebounds / 1 assist / 5 steals in yesterday's game). Seriously impressive. Even beyond the stats though, she creates so many opportunities for the team on the court, and is just a really fun player to watch all-around. Great to see her staying out of foul trouble, and able to play for most of both games (all 40 minutes of the Tulane game, in fact).

Blanca’s performance today pretty much speaks for itself - yes, she had the hot hand from the 3, but she was also scoring from inside as well and was outstanding defensively (as usual). If we can get both her and Tanesha on the court for the majority of each game and playing with offensive confidence like we saw today, I'm hoping they can lead this team during conference play. Based on what we've seen so far, I do think this team has the potential to hold its own in the America East.

Dor Saar also has me quite impressed. While she still has things to learn, she looks way more comfortable than I would generally have expected from a freshman playing in their first few collegiate games (and playing very significant minutes, no less). I don't want to speak too soon, but I can see her making a big impact on this team and program, even in her first year.

I will say it was nice to see some minutes from Barra as well - I think we'll continue to see her role grow as she develops more and more. It also has been satisfying to see Parise start to find her role on the team (that was a huge 3-pointer by her at the end of the 3rd quarter of the Tulane game, to put Maine up by two). I really enjoy rooting for her.

Cim, I know you're not a big fan of when teams rely heavily on the three. That's fine. I agree that teams need to be able to adjust when needed and find other ways to win on the nights when the 3s aren't falling (and that this is something Maine does need to focus on).

But, I would argue that you also need to play to your team's strengths (while also working on developing other strengths, to increase overall team versatility...). We are still just at game two of the regular season - isn't it possible that the couple freshman bigs who haven't been playing too much yet (mainly Williams and Carroll) are still working on some crucial things? The adjustment to D-I basketball may not be perfectly smooth for all athletes. There will be plenty of time for these newbies to develop and contribute, IMO.

As for mainejeff's comment around “D3 non-scholarship guards” getting too much PT... it is my understanding that all of our players are under scholarship, no? Or was this simply hyperbole? In either case, seems like folks on this board are (as usual) quick to throw around negative, targeted remarks after one or two rough games. For some of these kids, it is their first time getting significant minutes at this level of play. Props to those on this board who have been able to engage in constructive discussion without taking things to a place of constant negativity.

Hoping Maine can pull out Ws in its next two games against Bryant and UMFK - but more importantly, I'm hoping that by playing the wide range of teams that we'll be seeing in the next few months, the squad will ideally be that much more prepared come conference play in January. Looking forward to this week's games.


mainah57: Good informative and interesting post. Agree with everything you posted except that the 3 freshmen front court players can't get better sitting on the bench.

Wadling, Millan, Brosseau, Johnson and Sutton are not freshmen. Neither is Rossignol, Tapley and McVicar. The only freshmen player to get extensive minutes was Saar as she started and got 60 minutes 33 the first game nd 27 the second game.. Fogarty saw limited action 9 minutes in the 2 games and Williams, Barra and Carroll only played in the blow out game vs. Harvard and between them they played 15 minutes.

Here is an interesting fact. In the two games this past weekend Maine took 116 FGA's. The guards took 99 and the front court players took 17. Granted the front courters only got 85 of 400 total minutes all together with the guards getting 315 mnutes in the 2 games.

48 of the minutes were Wadling in 2 games took 13 shots, Johnson 2 games 22 minutes no shots, Barra 3 shots in 8 minutes 1 game, Williams 0 shots 1 game 2 minutes and Carroll 1 shot in 1 game 5 minutes.

Wadling had 9 points in 2 games and 4 assists, Johnson did not score and had 2 assists in 2 games and Barra had 1 assist and 2 points, Carroll and Williams no assists in 1 game each. So the inside players scored 11 points, had 17 FGA's and only 7 assists in 2 games. This illustrates that they did not get many touches on the block. Thus, no inside-outside game to get open high percentage 3's.

This illustrates what I said, "Live by the three, die by the three". They have the post players playing at the elbows screening for the guards and they do not post up on the block at all. Thus again, no inside-outside game to get open 3's.

Also, there was very little if any time in either game that 2 front court players were on the floor at the same time.

Teams that zone Maine are going to give them trouble and that word will get around quickly, especially come conference schedule time unless they make adjustments and go inside more.

Tulane played zone Maine 34 points, Harvard played them person to person 76 points.

Again, just my opinion. This is a very, very, very guard oriented team offensively and it looks like the front court players are just after thoughts offensively except for being screeners at the elbows for the guards against person-to-person defense.

Ought to get 2 wins next week against a low major D-1 Bryant team and a 7th level team of the 10 divisions of college basketball in the UMFK who lost to Massachusetts this past weekend 111-44.

P.S. If I am not seeing things, I think the Maine women's team is running the same man to man offense that the UMaine men's team is and they took 32 3 point attempts out of their 59 overall FGA's thus taking 54.7% of their fGA's as threes. And didn't the men shoot 31% and the women 28%
for last year? "Just sayin"!!!!!!!!!! "IF YOU LIVE BY THE THREE THEN DON'T BE SURPRISED IF YOU DIE BY THE 3".
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Re: WBB: Tip-Off Tournament vs Tulane 11/10, Harvard 11/11

Postby MBRer » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:32 am

Millan sets school record as UMaine women defeat Harvard

...“The key today was we were making our shots,” said UMaine junior guard Tanesha Sutton, who had seven points, eight assists, seven rebounds three steals. “We played a great game on Friday. We got open shots but they weren’t falling. They were falling today and we were more aggressive. We were attacking the basket and that was good.”

“We knew that we were going to have a lot of open shots and that we had to make them,” said Millan, who also had five rebounds and two assists and was an All-Tourney pick. “We were ready. We had a lot of energy.”

“I really loved our defense. Today we went straight [man-to-man defense]. Friday, we switched it up, man and zone,” said UMaine interim head coach Amy Vachon. “They got after it. When you play defense like that, you give yourself an opportunity to win basketball games.

“We’ve worked really hard on defense the last two weeks, transition defense especially, and that was huge for us today,” added Vachon. “I really thought we did a fantastic job with it. I remember them having a couple open threes in transition but, other than that, we were really getting back and taking that to heart.”

http://bangordailynews.com/2017/11/11/s ... t-harvard/
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Re: WBB: Tip-Off Tournament vs Tulane 11/10, Harvard 11/11

Postby turkeyman » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:03 am

What a difference a day makes. About six minutes in, you knew Maine was a different team on Saturday. Fans had been talking after the Tulane game, and the most common sentence was a hopeful, "It'll take some time for Maine to put all these pieces together."

It took about 12 minutes of game time.

For Maine to become a good team, I thought after the Tulane game, Blanca had to be more part of the offense. Seemed that she didn't get more than six or seven touches against Tulane. Against Harvard, she got lots of touches and they all turned to oro. In both games Blanca made opportunities for herself, too, with her defense. If it is true that the really good teams make their offense off defense, Blanca is the microcosm of that saying. With her great hands, which are at the end of long arms, and her mobility and her court sense, she gets steals and boards, and she gets in the way of the other team, creating off her defense opportunity for offense for herself and for her teammates.

Couldn't agree more with mainah. The lasting story from these two games is Tanesha. Barron said of the teams of 2014-16 that Maine would be mixing up the traditional structure of point, shooting guard, wing, four and center. That was largely because of Liz Wood, who could and did play every position, and Bella Swan, who could play at least the two, three, four and five, and because of Sigi, who could play the one and the two and could also rebound like a three or a four. Tanesha embodies all those abilities, too. Against Tulane, T played well and notably wasn't called for a foul until the third quarter. Ditto against Harvard. She seemed much more comfortable. Sometimes last year it seemed that she felt the responsibility for the entire team. This weekend, she was more relaxed, and she was everywhere on the court. Great hands, in really good condition, as smart as anyone on the court -- yes, I'm aware Maine was playing Harvard -- and really devoted to her team. I watched to see her reaction during the awards for all-tournament, knowing that it would go to Blanca. T was all in for Blanca, first to hug her, very demonstrative when Blanca was announced, etc. T may become the team leader even without playing the point, as Liz Wood was for a couple of years. Tanesha has also perfected that little push under the boards that made Monica Peterson a great rebounder. Just as the shot goes up, with the officials either screened or behind you, you put two fingers in the small of the back of your man, who has position on you, and then push just enough to knock your man off balance but not to the floor. Now, you're no longer boxed out and you get the board. I saw T do it at least three times against Tulane.

Dor may be the real deal. Hope she can complete four years here without being mustered into the army, as was the previous recruit from Israel. Her mistakes were freshmen mistakes and not many. Team seemed to respond well to her at the point. That doesn't always happen with a freshman point. She seems to be the type of player who is fully engaged. Quick release on her shot. Noticed that sometimes when she passes and starts into her pattern, she clenches her fists and lowers her head like a little kid who just spied the jungle gym on the playground and is hell-bent to get to it. She seemed to really enjoy being on the court.

Who wasn't surprised that Parise got the start? She played almost as if she had spent her year away from basketball studying the game. Big thing I noticed was that she is playing defense now with her feet. That is a huge stride for any player (pun intended). Parise will never be the fastest kid on the court. May not have been even at Van Buren. But she isn't wasting any motion, which makes her more efficient than some who may be faster. Second, Vachon rewards effort, and it could well be that if Vachon has decided to go with a three-to-four-guard set she is looking for a third-fourth guard who will put forth the effort. I still think that Naira Caceras lost out to Maddy as backup point to Sigi last year because of Maddy's hard work. Maddy came off the bench, not Caceras, when Sigi sat. (Note that of the four who transferred to DI schools, Caceras may have finished fourth going to Butler, which was 6-25 last year.) No one ever doubted Parise's shooting. The rest of her game seems to be developing nicely. She may not start all year -- one still expects Maine to be starting at least two bigs later in the season -- but she played this weekend like a starter, especially on defense.

Fanny Wadling is going to be the key big, and the tournament showed flashes of how important she is going to be. When she dropped a trey in the third quarter against Harvard, you just felt that Maine wasn't going to let this lead slip away. She got a couple of bum calls yesterday. KJ played really well spelling Fanny and she got more than a couple of bum calls. Harvard's No. 13 (Jennie Boehm) wasn't just all over Fanny and KJ, she was grabbing, hooking, pushing and getting away with it all. This was the only badly officiated game in the tournament, and it was terrible. I don't believe I have ever seen Debra Garcia call a worse game. The two other officials weren't much better. Credit to Maine's kids that they didn't let the bad officiating get them down. KJ needs to look for her shot more. Tulane seemed not to bother her defensively knowing she wasn't a big threat to shoot.

Julie has been working on defense and on dribble penetration. She hit three or four pull-up jumpers and a couple of threes over the weekend. Like Parise, she is playing defense with her feet. More than just a spot-up three-point shooter. Reminds me some of Ashley Underwood, who came in with a reputation for threes above all else and turned into an all-conference player and a solid defender.

Blanca and Tanesha can be great together. Remember Albany last year at the CIC? When both are on top of their game, Maine is going to do well.

Maine almost never had two bigs on the court at the same time. But that may be the set for a while. Looked to me like there may be a couple of conditioning issues on the Maine team. Some kids just have to work themselves into shape because conditioning doesn't come easily. I saw lots of potential in Kira, but she did pick up quick fouls. Bigs seem sometimes to get extra attention from the officials -- "little man syndrome" among short officials who seem to key on women who are taller than them -- and they need to learn to be extra careful. They just won't get away with some of the same stuff as shorter players. Kira is active and mobile, and I expect she will be an increasingly important factor as the season goes along. The younger players are disproportionately bigs, so of course bigs overall are going to get less playing time for a while. I thought Maeve has learned the system well and was usually in position. Katt is in an odd situation psychologically. Look at her high-school tapes and you see everything built around her. Not going to be the same here, at least not for a while. Someone asked me yesterday if it ever snows in Israel. Same could be asked about Miami. A couple of those kids have quite an adjustment ahead of them.

Last year, Harvard didn't lose its second game until Feb. 3. Harvard lost only one senior starter off the team that beat Maine 69-62 at Cambridge, playing in a shed back behind the football stadium. (The Pit is one of the few courts I've been at that is even worse then Harvard's.) Maine led most of that game but never by much, and had four players in double figures (Sigi, Tanesha, Blanca and Sole). No help off the bench, though. This year, Harvard looked a bit nonchalant. It had stayed with a Dayton team that can be really, really good. (Also really, really bad. Dayton played about five horrible minutes against Tulane, about 20 magnificent minutes and about 15 OK minutes.) But whether the Crimson kids were cocky or not, they didn't seem engaged. Maine took advantage.

Interesting thought: Playing at the highest level each team played over the two games, how would you rank the four in the tournament? Was Maine, at its best, the third best in the tournament? Was Tulane second best? Was Dayton really the best? Etc. Can't answer that question, but I'll bet Vachon would like to have that Tulane game back.

Cim, as to shooting a basketful of threes, remember two things. With this many guards, all of whom can shoot the three, odds of everyone having an off night from downtown are very low. But it happened on Friday. The key for Vachon is finding the hot hand early enough in each game. Second, shooting 30 percent on threes brings the same number of points as shooting 45 percent on twos. Admittedly you almost never get the and-one on a three and you get and-one maybe four or five times a game if you have a) a strong post game or b) a strong transition game.

The Tulane game was a huge disappointment offensively. But the defense was strong. No one on Tulane hit double figures. Kolby Morgan, Tulane's top scorer, had nine. Meredith Schulte had only six, though they all seemed to come when Tulane really needed them. Tulane barely shot better than Maine. How often will you shoot 28.6 percent and win? I believe Maine did that once last year, too, but it is rare. What's with a team called The Green Wave wearing Columbia-blue home uniforms? Kinda like UVM going to black for its road uniforms rather than green. (For 20 years I always cautioned Marilyn not to wear green to a Vermont game, and now we have to avoid wearing black, too?)

Strong schedule ahead. We'll see how these kids respond.

Bob Neal
New Sharon
Last edited by turkeyman on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WBB: Tip-Off Tournament vs Tulane 11/10, Harvard 11/11

Postby mainejeff » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:20 am

mainah57 wrote:As for mainejeff's comment around “D3 non-scholarship guards” getting too much PT... it is my understanding that all of our players are under scholarship, no? Or was this simply hyperbole? In either case, seems like folks on this board are (as usual) quick to throw around negative, targeted remarks after one or two rough games. For some of these kids, it is their first time getting significant minutes at this level of play. Props to those on this board who have been able to engage in constructive discussion without taking things to a place of constant negativity.


My comment was made out of frustration with the team's performance in the Tulane game as well as the "bigger picture" concerning recruiting tactics and the lack of playing time of those sitting on the bench in a game where nothing was working on offense. That being said, I am not privy to all the processes that go into the decisions that are made. I apologize to the players who put in many hours of hard work. While it was not my intention to belittle them or their efforts...the comment could certainly be construed that way and hopefully this clears things up a bit in that regard.

Regarding the Harvard game....that was an A+ effort put in by players & staff. Maine will obviously be relying on a guard heavy line-up this season, but hopefully they can get their inside game going with Wadling and Barra as the season progresses.

I think that eventually Maine's best line-up will be:

1 - Saar
2 - Sutton
3 - Millan
4 - Wadling
5 - Barra

But right now....

1 - Saar
2 - Brosseau
3 - Sutton
4 - Millan
5 - Wadling
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Re: WBB: Tip-Off Tournament vs Tulane 11/10, Harvard 11/11

Postby mainejeff » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:34 am

turkeyman wrote: ........I watched to see her reaction during the awards for all-tournament, knowing that it would go to Blanca. T was all in for Blanca, first to hug her, very demonstrative when Blanca was announced, etc. T may become the team leader even without playing the point, as Liz Wood was for a couple of years.......

......Interesting thought: Playing at the highest level each team played over the two games, how would you rank the four in the tournament. Was Maine, at its best, the third best in the tournament? Was Tulane second best? Was Dayton really the best? Etc. Can't answer that question, but I'll bet Vachon would like to have that Tulane game back.

Bob Neal
New Sharon


Terrific post as always, Bob. I wanted to respond to a couple of your points.

Sutton was an incredibly mature leader all weekend....like night & day from last season. Sutton & Millan both deserved to be on the all-tourney team. There's no doubt in my mind that they were both one of the top 5 or 6 players in the tourney and definitely 2 of the best performers. But alas...a third place finish means a certain protocol of only 1 player chosen.

I agree about your thoughts on the best team in the tourney performing at their highest level. I think that Maine had the best overall performance vs. Harvard. Unfortunately they also had the worst performance (offensively) vs. Tulane. I think that overall this was a very competitive tourney with 4 teams that are evenly matched and could beat each other on any given night. That being said....I hope that the tourney returns to the CIC next season & would also be nice to see a couple of marquee names like last season (with one cupcake for Maine's first game ;) ) With Maine playing at Ohio State & Duke this season.....maybe those 2 programs could be enticed to one of the best women's tourneys in the country(?). :)
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Re: WBB: Tip-Off Tournament vs Tulane 11/10, Harvard 11/11

Postby turkeyman » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:45 am

MJ, I'm glad other people noticed Tanesha's maturity. This may be what makes this team.

I expect that getting Mississippi State into the tournament last year was a bit of a fluke. Maybe Vic Schaefer didn't know how well MSU would finish. But Maine also had a bit of a history with MSU, which came to the tourney about 12 years ago and lost to a St. Joseph's team that held the ball at half court every possession for 15 seconds. MSU had come to run, not to watch. Next night, Maine beat St. Joe's for one of its few tourney titles.

My guess is that Ohio State is a guarantee game so we won't see Buckeyes here. Maine may get Toledo next year or the year after for the tournament. Maine plays at Toledo on Nov. 30, at OSU Dec. 3. There is the obvious link to Duke, so Maine might well get the Dukies back for the tournament. Hope Palumbo insists on playing in the CIC, not the Pit. Having Dayton this year and going to Toledo may start to reforge a bit of a link to the Midwest that Maine had when Versyp was here (IU, Michigan, Kent State, Akron, Bradley, XU). With Barron's links to the South and some new lines into the Midwest, Maine could move to some prominence among mid-majors again.

I apologized to every fan from Dayton that I spoke with -- they were sitting right next to us on the floor -- and said I hoped they were invited back to play in our real arena. One guy from Dayton said they didn't have much of an arena either -- I have no way of knowing whether he was just being nice or speaking truth -- and then looked around at the Pit and said, "but this . . ."

Maybe the Harvest Festival will have to look for new digs. It was absolutely jammed yesterday and the only way to open up space would be to reduce the number of vendors. At any rate, the tournament and the Harvest Festival can co-exist. They just need to be sure to do the paperwork in time.

MJ, I'm inclined to agree with your assessment that Maine's game against Harvard was the best team in the tournament and that Maine against Tulane was the worst. One other thing, the Dayton folks said their team could not slow down Tulane the way Maine had done. With six of the 15 Flyers out injured, that was a concern, but Dayton held Tulane back enough to win even with a bit of foul trouble and a short bench. Seeing Tulane running and working its patterns reinforced the conclusion that defensively Maine really played well Friday night.
The team defense was strong, and if I had to choose whether I wanted my team to develop first in team defense or in team offense, I would take defense every time because it is so much harder to build team defense. Vachon tweeted about a month ago that showing this team the tapes of 2015-16 showed the kids what team defense means. She also tweeted that the tapes reminded her of how hard it is to build team defense.

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Re: WBB: Tip-Off Tournament vs Tulane 11/10, Harvard 11/11

Postby bcbc55 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:41 pm

turkeyman wrote:What a difference a day makes. About six minutes in, you knew Maine was a different team on Saturday. Fans had been talking after the Tulane game, and the most common sentence was a hopeful, "It'll take some time for Maine to put all these pieces together."

It took about 12 minutes of game time.

For Maine to become a good team, I thought after the Tulane game, Blanca had to be more part of the offense. Seemed that she didn't get more than six or seven touches against Tulane. Against Harvard, she got lots of touches and they all turned to oro. In both games Blanca made opportunities for herself, too, with her defense. If it is true that the really good teams make their offense off defense, Blanca is the microcosm of that saying. With her great hands, which are at the end of long arms, and her mobility and her court sense, she gets steals and boards, and she gets in the way of the other team, creating off her defense opportunity for offense for herself and for her teammates.

Couldn't agree more with mainah. The lasting story from these two games is Tanesha. Barron said of the teams of 2014-16 that Maine would be mixing up the traditional structure of point, shooting guard, wing, four and center. That was largely because of Liz Wood, who could and did play every position, and Bella Swan, who could play at least the two, three, four and five, and because of Sigi, who could play the one and the two and could also rebound like a three or a four. Tanesha embodies all those abilities, too. Against Tulane, T played well and notably wasn't called for a foul until the third quarter. Ditto against Harvard. She seemed much more comfortable. Sometimes last year it seemed that she felt the responsibility for the entire team. This weekend, she was more relaxed, and she was everywhere on the court. Great hands, in really good condition, as smart as anyone on the court -- yes, I'm aware Maine was playing Harvard -- and really devoted to her team. I watched to see her reaction during the awards for all-tournament, knowing that it would go to Blanca. T was all in for Blanca, first to hug her, very demonstrative when Blanca was announced, etc. T may become the team leader even without playing the point, as Liz Wood was for a couple of years. Tanesha has also perfected that little push under the boards that made Monica Peterson a great rebounder. Just as the shot goes up, with the officials either screened or behind you, you put two fingers in the small of the back of your man, who has position on you, and then push just enough to knock your man off balance but not to the floor. Now, you're no longer boxed out and you get the board. I saw T do it at least three times against Tulane.

Dor may be the real deal. Hope she can complete four years here without being mustered into the army, as was the previous recruit from Israel. Her mistakes were freshmen mistakes and not many. Team seemed to respond well to her at the point. That doesn't always happen with a freshman point. She seems to be the type of player who is fully engaged. Quick release on her shot. Noticed that sometimes when she passes and starts into her pattern, she clenches her fists and lowers her head like a little kid who just spied the jungle gym on the playground and is hell-bent to get to it. She seemed to really enjoy being on the court.

Who wasn't surprised that Parise got the start? She played almost as if she had spent her year away from basketball studying the game. Big thing I noticed was that she is playing defense now with her feet. That is a huge stride for any player (pun intended). Parise will never be the fastest kid on the court. May not have been even at Van Buren. But she isn't wasting any motion, which makes her more efficient than some who may be faster. Second, Vachon rewards effort, and it could well be that if Vachon has decided to go with a three-to-four-guard set she is looking for a third-fourth guard who will put forth the effort. I still think that Naira Caceras lost out to Maddy as backup point to Sigi last year because of Maddy's hard work. Maddy came off the bench, not Caceras, when Sigi sat. (Note that of the four who transferred to DI schools, Caceras may have finished fourth going to Butler, which was 6-25 last year.) No one ever doubted Parise's shooting. The rest of her game seems to be developing nicely. She may not start all year -- one still expects Maine to be starting at least two bigs later in the season -- but she played this weekend like a starter, especially on defense.

Fanny Wadling is going to be the key big, and the tournament showed flashes of how important she is going to be. When she dropped a trey in the third quarter against Harvard, you just felt that Maine wasn't going to let this lead slip away. She got a couple of bum calls yesterday. KJ played really well spelling Fanny and she got more than a couple of bum calls. Harvard's No. 13 (Jennie Boehm) wasn't just all over Fanny and KJ, she was grabbing, hooking, pushing and getting away with it all. This was the only badly officiated game in the tournament, and it was terrible. I don't believe I have ever seen Debra Garcia call a worse game. The two other officials weren't much better. Credit to Maine's kids that they didn't let the bad officiating get them down. KJ needs to look for her shot more. Tulane seemed not to bother her defensively knowing she wasn't a big threat to shoot.

Julie has been working on defense and on dribble penetration. She hit three or four pull-up jumpers and a couple of threes over the weekend. Like Parise, she is playing defense with her feet. More than just a spot-up three-point shooter. Reminds me some of Ashley Underwood, who came in with a reputation for threes above all else and turned into an all-conference player and a solid defender.

Blanca and Tanesha can be great together. Remember Albany last year at the CIC? When both are on top of their game, Maine is going to do well.

Maine almost never had two bigs on the court at the same time. But that may be the set for a while. Looked to me like there may be a couple of conditioning issues on the Maine team. Some kids just have to work themselves into shape because conditioning doesn't come easily. I saw lots of potential in Kira, but she did pick up quick fouls. Bigs seem sometimes to get extra attention from the officials -- "little man syndrome" among short officials who seem to key on women who are taller than them -- and they need to learn to be extra careful. They just won't get away with some of the same stuff as shorter players. Kira is active and mobile, and I expect she will be an increasingly important factor as the season goes along. The younger players are disproportionately bigs, so of course bigs overall are going to get less playing time for a while. I thought Maeve has learned the system well and was usually in position. Katt is in an odd situation psychologically. Look at her high-school tapes and you see everything built around her. Not going to be the same here, at least not for a while. Someone asked me yesterday if it ever snows in Israel. Same could be asked about Miami. A couple of those kids have quite an adjustment ahead of them.

Last year, Harvard didn't lose its second game until Feb. 3. Harvard lost only one senior starter off the team that beat Maine 69-62 at Cambridge, playing in a shed back behind the football stadium. (The Pit is one of the few courts I've been at that is even worse then Harvard's.) Maine led most of that game but never by much, and had four players in double figures (Sigi, Tanesha, Blanca and Sole). No help off the bench, though. This year, Harvard looked a bit nonchalant. It had stayed with a Dayton team that can be really, really good. (Also really, really bad. Dayton played about five horrible minutes against Tulane, about 20 magnificent minutes and about 15 OK minutes.) But whether the Crimson kids were cocky or not, they didn't seem engaged. Maine took advantage.

Interesting thought: Playing at the highest level each team played over the two games, how would you rank the four in the tournament? Was Maine, at its best, the third best in the tournament? Was Tulane second best? Was Dayton really the best? Etc. Can't answer that question, but I'll bet Vachon would like to have that Tulane game back.

Cim, as to shooting a basketful of threes, remember two things. With this many guards, all of whom can shoot the three, odds of everyone having an off night from downtown are very low. But it happened on Friday. The key for Vachon is finding the hot hand early enough in each game. Second, shooting 30 percent on threes brings the same number of points as shooting 45 percent on twos. Admittedly you almost never get the and-one on a three and you get and-one maybe four or five times a game if you have a) a strong post game or b) a strong transition game.

The Tulane game was a huge disappointment offensively. But the defense was strong. No one on Tulane hit double figures. Kolby Morgan, Tulane's top scorer, had nine. Meredith Schulte had only six, though they all seemed to come when Tulane really needed them. Tulane barely shot better than Maine. How often will you shoot 28.6 percent and win? I believe Maine did that once last year, too, but it is rare. What's with a team called The Green Wave wearing Columbia-blue home uniforms? Kinda like UVM going to black for its road uniforms rather than green. (For 20 years I always cautioned Marilyn not to wear green to a Vermont game, and now we have to avoid wearing black, too?)

Strong schedule ahead. We'll see how these kids respond.

Bob Neal
New Sharon
turkeyman wrote:What a difference a day makes. About six minutes in, you knew Maine was a different team on Saturday. Fans had been talking after the Tulane game, and the most common sentence was a hopeful, "It'll take some time for Maine to put all these pieces together."

It took about 12 minutes of game time.

For Maine to become a good team, I thought after the Tulane game, Blanca had to be more part of the offense. Seemed that she didn't get more than six or seven touches against Tulane. Against Harvard, she got lots of touches and they all turned to oro. In both games Blanca made opportunities for herself, too, with her defense. If it is true that the really good teams make their offense off defense, Blanca is the microcosm of that saying. With her great hands, which are at the end of long arms, and her mobility and her court sense, she gets steals and boards, and she gets in the way of the other team, creating off her defense opportunity for offense for herself and for her teammates.

Couldn't agree more with mainah. The lasting story from these two games is Tanesha. Barron said of the teams of 2014-16 that Maine would be mixing up the traditional structure of point, shooting guard, wing, four and center. That was largely because of Liz Wood, who could and did play every position, and Bella Swan, who could play at least the two, three, four and five, and because of Sigi, who could play the one and the two and could also rebound like a three or a four. Tanesha embodies all those abilities, too. Against Tulane, T played well and notably wasn't called for a foul until the third quarter. Ditto against Harvard. She seemed much more comfortable. Sometimes last year it seemed that she felt the responsibility for the entire team. This weekend, she was more relaxed, and she was everywhere on the court. Great hands, in really good condition, as smart as anyone on the court -- yes, I'm aware Maine was playing Harvard -- and really devoted to her team. I watched to see her reaction during the awards for all-tournament, knowing that it would go to Blanca. T was all in for Blanca, first to hug her, very demonstrative when Blanca was announced, etc. T may become the team leader even without playing the point, as Liz Wood was for a couple of years. Tanesha has also perfected that little push under the boards that made Monica Peterson a great rebounder. Just as the shot goes up, with the officials either screened or behind you, you put two fingers in the small of the back of your man, who has position on you, and then push just enough to knock your man off balance but not to the floor. Now, you're no longer boxed out and you get the board. I saw T do it at least three times against Tulane.

Dor may be the real deal. Hope she can complete four years here without being mustered into the army, as was the previous recruit from Israel. Her mistakes were freshmen mistakes and not many. Team seemed to respond well to her at the point. That doesn't always happen with a freshman point. She seems to be the type of player who is fully engaged. Quick release on her shot. Noticed that sometimes when she passes and starts into her pattern, she clenches her fists and lowers her head like a little kid who just spied the jungle gym on the playground and is hell-bent to get to it. She seemed to really enjoy being on the court.

Who wasn't surprised that Parise got the start? She played almost as if she had spent her year away from basketball studying the game. Big thing I noticed was that she is playing defense now with her feet. That is a huge stride for any player (pun intended). Parise will never be the fastest kid on the court. May not have been even at Van Buren. But she isn't wasting any motion, which makes her more efficient than some who may be faster. Second, Vachon rewards effort, and it could well be that if Vachon has decided to go with a three-to-four-guard set she is looking for a third-fourth guard who will put forth the effort. I still think that Naira Caceras lost out to Maddy as backup point to Sigi last year because of Maddy's hard work. Maddy came off the bench, not Caceras, when Sigi sat. (Note that of the four who transferred to DI schools, Caceras may have finished fourth going to Butler, which was 6-25 last year.) No one ever doubted Parise's shooting. The rest of her game seems to be developing nicely. She may not start all year -- one still expects Maine to be starting at least two bigs later in the season -- but she played this weekend like a starter, especially on defense.

Fanny Wadling is going to be the key big, and the tournament showed flashes of how important she is going to be. When she dropped a trey in the third quarter against Harvard, you just felt that Maine wasn't going to let this lead slip away. She got a couple of bum calls yesterday. KJ played really well spelling Fanny and she got more than a couple of bum calls. Harvard's No. 13 (Jennie Boehm) wasn't just all over Fanny and KJ, she was grabbing, hooking, pushing and getting away with it all. This was the only badly officiated game in the tournament, and it was terrible. I don't believe I have ever seen Debra Garcia call a worse game. The two other officials weren't much better. Credit to Maine's kids that they didn't let the bad officiating get them down. KJ needs to look for her shot more. Tulane seemed not to bother her defensively knowing she wasn't a big threat to shoot.

Julie has been working on defense and on dribble penetration. She hit three or four pull-up jumpers and a couple of threes over the weekend. Like Parise, she is playing defense with her feet. More than just a spot-up three-point shooter. Reminds me some of Ashley Underwood, who came in with a reputation for threes above all else and turned into an all-conference player and a solid defender.

Blanca and Tanesha can be great together. Remember Albany last year at the CIC? When both are on top of their game, Maine is going to do well.

Maine almost never had two bigs on the court at the same time. But that may be the set for a while. Looked to me like there may be a couple of conditioning issues on the Maine team. Some kids just have to work themselves into shape because conditioning doesn't come easily. I saw lots of potential in Kira, but she did pick up quick fouls. Bigs seem sometimes to get extra attention from the officials -- "little man syndrome" among short officials who seem to key on women who are taller than them -- and they need to learn to be extra careful. They just won't get away with some of the same stuff as shorter players. Kira is active and mobile, and I expect she will be an increasingly important factor as the season goes along. The younger players are disproportionately bigs, so of course bigs overall are going to get less playing time for a while. I thought Maeve has learned the system well and was usually in position. Katt is in an odd situation psychologically. Look at her high-school tapes and you see everything built around her. Not going to be the same here, at least not for a while. Someone asked me yesterday if it ever snows in Israel. Same could be asked about Miami. A couple of those kids have quite an adjustment ahead of them.

Last year, Harvard didn't lose its second game until Feb. 3. Harvard lost only one senior starter off the team that beat Maine 69-62 at Cambridge, playing in a shed back behind the football stadium. (The Pit is one of the few courts I've been at that is even worse then Harvard's.) Maine led most of that game but never by much, and had four players in double figures (Sigi, Tanesha, Blanca and Sole). No help off the bench, though. This year, Harvard looked a bit nonchalant. It had stayed with a Dayton team that can be really, really good. (Also really, really bad. Dayton played about five horrible minutes against Tulane, about 20 magnificent minutes and about 15 OK minutes.) But whether the Crimson kids were cocky or not, they didn't seem engaged. Maine took advantage.

Interesting thought: Playing at the highest level each team played over the two games, how would you rank the four in the tournament? Was Maine, at its best, the third best in the tournament? Was Tulane second best? Was Dayton really the best? Etc. Can't answer that question, but I'll bet Vachon would like to have that Tulane game back.

Cim, as to shooting a basketful of threes, remember two things. With this many guards, all of whom can shoot the three, odds of everyone having an off night from downtown are very low. But it happened on Friday. The key for Vachon is finding the hot hand early enough in each game. Second, shooting 30 percent on threes brings the same number of points as shooting 45 percent on twos. Admittedly you almost never get the and-one on a three and you get and-one maybe four or five times a game if you have a) a strong post game or b) a strong transition game.

The Tulane game was a huge disappointment offensively. But the defense was strong. No one on Tulane hit double figures. Kolby Morgan, Tulane's top scorer, had nine. Meredith Schulte had only six, though they all seemed to come when Tulane really needed them. Tulane barely shot better than Maine. How often will you shoot 28.6 percent and win? I believe Maine did that once last year, too, but it is rare. What's with a team called The Green Wave wearing Columbia-blue home uniforms? Kinda like UVM going to black for its road uniforms rather than green. (For 20 years I always cautioned Marilyn not to wear green to a Vermont game, and now we have to avoid wearing black, too?)

Strong schedule ahead. We'll see how these kids respond.

Bob Neal
New Sharon


Bob: On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the highest I have to give you a NINE.............teen for the post above. Excellent, informative, timely, interesting and certainly accurate.

I always enjoy them.

In regards that 45% of 2's equals 30% of 3's means that for two's a team has to go 9 for 20 and for 3"s they only have to go 6 for 20. I understand that.

However, here are 10 questions for anyone who favors the 3 point game over the 2 point game.

1. How many offensive rebounds for put backs does a team
get in a game on missed 3's compared to missed two's?
2. How many fouls does the 3's draw compared to shooting two's?
3. How many 3 point plays for 2's compare to 4 point plays on 3's?
4. Why do post back-to-basket players have to get more rest then the 3 point shooters?
5. Why do the post on the block players get into more foul trouble then 3 point shooter?
6. When the 3's aren't falling why do teams have such a hard time adjusting to get 2's when they have to?
7. Why is it hard to win a end of season, one and done tournament game emphasizing the 3 point shot?
8. Why is the percentage higher for 3's when the ball goes inside to the player on the block and then out to the 3 point shooter?
9. Where on the floor is it the hardest to defend a player one on one and why is it the hardest?
10. Why do teams that shoot more 3's get fast broke more?

Answer those questions and then you will know why I favor shooting no more than 25% of my field goal attempts as 3's.

Just food for thought.

"What floats my basketball boat doesn't necessarily float somebody else's basketball boat"!!!!!!!!!!

"There are different basketball strokes for different basketball folks".

"Opinions are just like noses and everyone has one".
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Re: WBB: Tip-Off Tournament vs Tulane 11/10, Harvard 11/11

Postby turkeyman » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:30 pm

Cim, you threw out some low-hanging fruit there, so I'll try to pick it.

No. 1. Point to Cim. I would guess it is three or four to one. So many missed treys rebound long off the rim that there are fewer putbacks. But, if the shooting team rebounds, it has a new 30 and can run a new play. That is why it is so important for a three-point shooter to follow her shot. A team like Maine with three or four guards will have one more player in position than has the defending team to snag that long rebound.

No. 2. I already made that point on the and-ones. We agree.

No. 3. This is just No. 2 restated.

No. 4. Same reason hockey lines play 90 seconds in a shift and defensemen stay on the ice for two or three shifts. Posts (and hockey lines) are going coast to coast, guards are playing between the blue lines, so to speak, except when the opposition scores, and then the point has to go full court on the inbounds pass.

No. 5. Little man syndrome. And the space on the floor occupied by the posts is smaller per player and the down-low space watched by officials is smaller per official, so more stuff can be seen.

No. 6. Shooters shoot. If Reggie Miller goes 0 for 12, do you tell him to stop shooting? We don't have any Reggie Millers at this level, of course, but the rule applies. To be successful with threes, a shooter must hit two or three in a game. More is icing. If she goes 0 for 4 and then hits two, she is 2 for 6, quite acceptable. Kristin McCormick used to get down on herself when she missed the first two shots and sometimes never tried another three. She should have. Over her career she was sharp enough as a shooter that if she missed four or five, she would still start hitting soon enough. Balanced teams will have three-point shooters who can hit the pull-up jumper (Julie, Blanca) and two-point shooters who only shoot outside the arc from time to time. It's mixing up your shots that keeps a defense honest, so find the three-point shooters who have the hot hand tonight, keep your jump-shooters and penetrators on the floor and pressure the defense.

No. 7. Same reason it is hard depending on your 6-4 center with an offense in which the ball goes from the point to the center who goes to the hoop or kicks it back out to the three-point shooter. That description might sound familiar to some who have been watching this game for a while. As in No. 6, it is the mixture of shot selections that makes a good offense.

No. 8. The pass in to the block has pulled in the defense which cannot move back to the perimeter as fast as the ball can move. That part of Maine's three-point game was only a little bit in evidence this weekend, but as the bigs develop, we should see more of it. And, Maine did drop a few treys when someone penetrated and then kicked the ball back out for the long shot. Same effect, different source of the pass to the shooter.

No. 9. Point to Cim. I would guess a wing is hardest to defend when she is moving along the arc, with the ability to penetrate with or without the ball. The block is the hardest to defend if the post is good at keeping her body between the ball and the defender, as Fanny is. I would never want to defend any good four because they are bigger and faster than I could ever have hoped to be. Probably smarter, too. You tell me your answer.

No. 10. Because of the long rebounds. I think many teams defending the three err by collapsing toward the basket when the shot goes up. Given how many three-point shots bounce back out off the rim, I expect the defenders have more opportunity for the long rebound if they stay outside and let the bigs go for the rebound if it comes down short. I think we saw that a bit with Harvard yesterday. It might have lost a couple of long rebounds and therefore fast breaks because its defenders pulled in when Maine's three-point shots went up so Maine got the rebound because no one from Harvard was on the perimeter. Can't prove it, but I think I'm seeing more rotation on the ball on three-point shots than, say, 15 years ago. With more rotation, the ball is less likely to ricochet right back out than on a flat shot that isn't rotating. If this is an accurate observation, then the proportion of long shots that rebound long would be going down, too.

Good questions. You judge the answers.

Bob Neal
New Sharon
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