WBB: Tip-Off Tournament vs Tulane 11/10, Harvard 11/11

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Re: WBB: Tip-Off Tournament vs Tulane 11/10, Harvard 11/11

Postby bcbc55 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:02 pm

turkeyman wrote:Cim, you threw out some low-hanging fruit there, so I'll try to pick it.

No. 1. Point to Cim. I would guess it is three or four to one. So many missed treys rebound long off the rim that there are fewer putbacks. But, if the shooting team rebounds, it has a new 30 and can run a new play. That is why it is so important for a three-point shooter to follow her shot. A team like Maine with three or four guards will have one more player in position than has the defending team to snag that long rebound.

No. 2. I already made that point on the and-ones. We agree.

No. 3. This is just No. 2 restated.

No. 4. Same reason hockey lines play 90 seconds in a shift and defensemen stay on the ice for two or three shifts. Posts (and hockey lines) are going coast to coast, guards are playing between the blue lines, so to speak, except when the opposition scores, and then the point has to go full court on the inbounds pass.

No. 5. Little man syndrome. And the space on the floor occupied by the posts is smaller per player and the down-low space watched by officials is smaller per official, so more stuff can be seen.

No. 6. Shooters shoot. If Reggie Miller goes 0 for 12, do you tell him to stop shooting? We don't have any Reggie Millers at this level, of course, but the rule applies. To be successful with threes, a shooter must hit two or three in a game. More is icing. If she goes 0 for 4 and then hits two, she is 2 for 6, quite acceptable. Kristin McCormick used to get down on herself when she missed the first two shots and sometimes never tried another three. She should have. Over her career she was sharp enough as a shooter that if she missed four or five, she would still start hitting soon enough. Balanced teams will have three-point shooters who can hit the pull-up jumper (Julie, Blanca) and two-point shooters who only shoot outside the arc from time to time. It's mixing up your shots that keeps a defense honest, so find the three-point shooters who have the hot hand tonight, keep your jump-shooters and penetrators on the floor and pressure the defense.

No. 7. Same reason it is hard depending on your 6-4 center with an offense in which the ball goes from the point to the center who goes to the hoop or kicks it back out to the three-point shooter. That description might sound familiar to some who have been watching this game for a while. As in No. 6, it is the mixture of shot selections that makes a good offense.

No. 8. The pass in to the block has pulled in the defense which cannot move back to the perimeter as fast as the ball can move. That part of Maine's three-point game was only a little bit in evidence this weekend, but as the bigs develop, we should see more of it. And, Maine did drop a few treys when someone penetrated and then kicked the ball back out for the long shot. Same effect, different source of the pass to the shooter.

No. 9. Point to Cim. I would guess a wing is hardest to defend when she is moving along the arc, with the ability to penetrate with or without the ball. The block is the hardest to defend if the post is good at keeping her body between the ball and the defender, as Fanny is. I would never want to defend any good four because they are bigger and faster than I could ever have hoped to be. Probably smarter, too. You tell me your answer.

No. 10. Because of the long rebounds. I think many teams defending the three err by collapsing toward the basket when the shot goes up. Given how many three-point shots bounce back out off the rim, I expect the defenders have more opportunity for the long rebound if they stay outside and let the bigs go for the rebound if it comes down short. I think we saw that a bit with Harvard yesterday. It might have lost a couple of long rebounds and therefore fast breaks because its defenders pulled in when Maine's three-point shots went up so Maine got the rebound because no one from Harvard was on the perimeter. Can't prove it, but I think I'm seeing more rotation on the ball on three-point shots than, say, 15 years ago. With more rotation, the ball is less likely to ricochet right back out than on a flat shot that isn't rotating. If this is an accurate observation, then the proportion of long shots that rebound long would be going down, too.

Good questions. You judge the answers.

Bob Neal
New Sharon


BOB: Great Job: We agree on 1 2 3 4 5

6 Disagree: When ball has not gone into post early and as the game progresses it is just harder to get the perimeter players to look for the post player and they have less confidence to get the ball inside. As you said a mixture is needed. Good balanced teams don't take more that 25% of their FGA's as threes.

7 Disagree: The pressure of one and done in tournament games is much more than during the regular season games and effects perimeter shooters more than post players because of the distance of the FGA's. Like if you had to make a shot and your life depended on it, what would you take a power layup or a 3 pointer if no one was guarding you or with a player guarding you.

8 Disagree: Because the perimeter passer is already squared to the basket after he/she passes the ball to the block

9 Disagree: Post player on the block because they know when they are going to leave the floor and the defender doesn't. Using ball and head fakes or combinations of the two get defender in the air before the post player leaves the floor to take the power layup

10. agree

Just my opinions on the things we disagree on based on my experience of 73 years in the game.

"Different basketball strokes for different basketball folks" or "Whatever floats my basketball boat may not float your basketball boat".

"Opinions are like noses and everyone has one".

Like I tell people that I disagree with there are a lot of different ways to get the several miles from Bangor to Veazie. Drive a car up route 2, drive a car up the interstate and back track back to Veazie along route 2, take a taxi, take a boat or canoe or kyack up the Penobscot River, parachute out of an airplane, take a helicopter, ride a bicycle up route 2, take the bus from Bangor, connect to Veazie from Bangor via State street from downtown Bangor or take Mount Hope Avenue to State Street, etc. All get you to Veazie from Bangor, but some are more efficient and quicker then others. It is all up to the individual and how fast and safe they want to get there.

You had excellent answers to 1 2 3 4 5 and 10. Enjoyed doing this and I hope you did too. I certainly respect your opinion on basketball things, especially about the Maine women's team.

I'm just an old fashion inside-outside basketball guy first before I take a three. In fact, sometimes I had my perimeter players have to pass the ball to the block post up player (post player has to touch the ball) before we took a shot unless it was a power layup (and the player who took the layup better make the layup). If they didn't make the layup or took a shot that wasn't a power layup before the post player touched the ball once or they didn't have the green light for a three, then there was a sub at the table immediately.

Guess how quick the pass went inside to the post player on the block. But this forced the defense to double down on the post player to double team him/her because the block is the toughest spot on the floor to defend one on one with or without the ball which opened up the perimeter player for an open 3 if they were a good 3 point shooter. If the perimeter player wasn't a good 3 point shooter he could cut to the basket for an open layup or wait for a return pass from the post up player. But he didn't take a three. My players knew who had permission to take open threes and who didn't.

respectively,

CIM
Last edited by bcbc55 on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: WBB: Tip-Off Tournament vs Tulane 11/10, Harvard 11/11

Postby bcbc55 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:04 pm

bcbc55 wrote:
turkeyman wrote:Cim, you threw out some low-hanging fruit there, so I'll try to pick it.

No. 1. Point to Cim. I would guess it is three or four to one. So many missed treys rebound long off the rim that there are fewer putbacks. But, if the shooting team rebounds, it has a new 30 and can run a new play. That is why it is so important for a three-point shooter to follow her shot. A team like Maine with three or four guards will have one more player in position than has the defending team to snag that long rebound.

No. 2. I already made that point on the and-ones. We agree.

No. 3. This is just No. 2 restated.

No. 4. Same reason hockey lines play 90 seconds in a shift and defensemen stay on the ice for two or three shifts. Posts (and hockey lines) are going coast to coast, guards are playing between the blue lines, so to speak, except when the opposition scores, and then the point has to go full court on the inbounds pass.

No. 5. Little man syndrome. And the space on the floor occupied by the posts is smaller per player and the down-low space watched by officials is smaller per official, so more stuff can be seen.

No. 6. Shooters shoot. If Reggie Miller goes 0 for 12, do you tell him to stop shooting? We don't have any Reggie Millers at this level, of course, but the rule applies. To be successful with threes, a shooter must hit two or three in a game. More is icing. If she goes 0 for 4 and then hits two, she is 2 for 6, quite acceptable. Kristin McCormick used to get down on herself when she missed the first two shots and sometimes never tried another three. She should have. Over her career she was sharp enough as a shooter that if she missed four or five, she would still start hitting soon enough. Balanced teams will have three-point shooters who can hit the pull-up jumper (Julie, Blanca) and two-point shooters who only shoot outside the arc from time to time. It's mixing up your shots that keeps a defense honest, so find the three-point shooters who have the hot hand tonight, keep your jump-shooters and penetrators on the floor and pressure the defense.

No. 7. Same reason it is hard depending on your 6-4 center with an offense in which the ball goes from the point to the center who goes to the hoop or kicks it back out to the three-point shooter. That description might sound familiar to some who have been watching this game for a while. As in No. 6, it is the mixture of shot selections that makes a good offense.

No. 8. The pass in to the block has pulled in the defense which cannot move back to the perimeter as fast as the ball can move. That part of Maine's three-point game was only a little bit in evidence this weekend, but as the bigs develop, we should see more of it. And, Maine did drop a few treys when someone penetrated and then kicked the ball back out for the long shot. Same effect, different source of the pass to the shooter.

No. 9. Point to Cim. I would guess a wing is hardest to defend when she is moving along the arc, with the ability to penetrate with or without the ball. The block is the hardest to defend if the post is good at keeping her body between the ball and the defender, as Fanny is. I would never want to defend any good four because they are bigger and faster than I could ever have hoped to be. Probably smarter, too. You tell me your answer.

No. 10. Because of the long rebounds. I think many teams defending the three err by collapsing toward the basket when the shot goes up. Given how many three-point shots bounce back out off the rim, I expect the defenders have more opportunity for the long rebound if they stay outside and let the bigs go for the rebound if it comes down short. I think we saw that a bit with Harvard yesterday. It might have lost a couple of long rebounds and therefore fast breaks because its defenders pulled in when Maine's three-point shots went up so Maine got the rebound because no one from Harvard was on the perimeter. Can't prove it, but I think I'm seeing more rotation on the ball on three-point shots than, say, 15 years ago. With more rotation, the ball is less likely to ricochet right back out than on a flat shot that isn't rotating. If this is an accurate observation, then the proportion of long shots that rebound long would be going down, too.

Good questions. You judge the answers.

Bob Neal
New Sharon


BOB: Great Job: We agree on 1 2 3 4 5

6 7 8 9 disagree

10. agree
Last edited by bcbc55 on Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WBB: Tip-Off Tournament vs Tulane 11/10, Harvard 11/11

Postby Tom Nolette » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:04 am

Don Shields‏
@DonShieldsMaine
Highlight's from @BlackBearsWBB Saturday win over Harvard as @Bmillan11 scores a career high 28 points, shooting 12-13 from the floor on @BBSPMaine
https://t.co/EpxzdqdXgs
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Re: WBB: Tip-Off Tournament vs Tulane 11/10, Harvard 11/11

Postby Tom Nolette » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:34 am

Tip-Off Tournament at Memorial Gym ‘pretty good’ but future events returning to Bangor

...UMaine was the only one of the four teams that didn’t get to play in a postseason tournament a year ago as Dayton earned a spot in the NCAA Tournament while Tulane and Harvard received Women’s NIT bids. UMaine did reach the America East championship game but lost to six-time titlist Albany.

Attendance was listed at 1,054 at the 1,340-seat facility for the UMaine-Tulane game and 855 for the UMaine-Harvard game although both figures appeared to be inflated.

“Attendance was based on tickets issued (not actual fans in the seats) and that included season ticket holders,” explained Will Biberstein, the university’s senior associate athletic director for internal operations.

http://bangordailynews.com/2017/11/14/s ... to-bangor/
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