UConn Loses, UConn Loses

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Re: UConn Loses, UConn Loses

Postby thebam » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:16 pm

There is no such thing as wasting points. That's a myth. MSU won the game by out hustling UConn the entire way. Plain, simple. Just played better. Why didn't they go inside more? They didn't need to , as evidenced by the final score. MSU won the game. They played better. They deserved it. Geno said as much himself. This one doesn't require the deep dissecting looking to fix something that isn't broken.

For what it's worth, the flagarant foul was a sham. Could have even called flopping on the UConn girl if they had such a thing. There were several bad calls. The clean block by UConn wasn't a foul by any measure of the term. Officiating didn't ultimately decide the outcome of the game.
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Re: UConn Loses, UConn Loses

Postby TAL1957 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:53 pm

fafan wrote: ... To think that the final game will be two SEC teams that Maine lost to, Mississippi St and South Carolina. .... ;)
Hmmmm ..... :) :D :D :D
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Re: UConn Loses, UConn Loses

Postby bcbc55 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:23 pm

thebam wrote:There is no such thing as wasting points. That's a myth. MSU won the game by out hustling UConn the entire way. Plain, simple. Just played better. Why didn't they go inside more? They didn't need to , as evidenced by the final score. MSU won the game. They played better. They deserved it. Geno said as much himself. This one doesn't require the deep dissecting looking to fix something that isn't broken.

For what it's worth, the flagarant foul was a sham. Could have even called flopping on the UConn girl if they had such a thing. There were several bad calls. The clean block by UConn wasn't a foul by any measure of the term. Officiating didn't ultimately decide the outcome of the game.



the bam: Myth huh, well you certainly have a right to your opinion as do I.

If MS had gone inside more to their bigs they would have won by 10+ points,

Notice in the interview and at the press conference after the game that Geno never said he was "out coached", he said how well MS played and they did, but he certainly didn't help his team when he needed to which was throughout the entire game and too top it all off with the poor play at the 12 second mark of the overtime.

Then with all his mumbo, jumbo he laid it on his players for the loss.

Geno didn't coach today, HE WAS JUST THE 'SUPERVISOR OF SUBSTITUTIONS' and he cost UConn the game not his players.

The flagrant one foul call was the right call, but it should have been called at the time it happened, the sham was calling it well after it happened by the video.

The lead official is responsible for the area in which the foul occurred in the free throw lane as that is the lead officials primary coverage area. How that was missed must have been because all three officials, but especially the lead official were ball watching and not watching her PCA.

The smaller lady official and the older gentleman official looked lost throughout the whole game. The other lady official must have thought she was working the game as a one person crew all alone.

Usually the officiating is a little better then the playing, but that was not the case in that game last night.
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Re: UConn Loses, UConn Loses

Postby MaineBBFan99 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:35 pm

What a great showcase for women's basketball on the national stage!

There is no such thing as wasting points Bob. You don't have a finite amount of baskets that can be scored in a season. That is just foolish. Each coach doesn't get a list of "your team is allowed to score 3,312 points this year, and no more than that, use them wisely." How can you even type something like that?


Completely agree with this. Coach Cimbollek, with all due respect, the idea that UConn "wasted" points in previous games makes absolutely no sense to me, and there is no way to conclusively prove such a statement. Teams do not have a finite well of points in a season. Rather, great teams occasionally have an off night offensively - statistically speaking, that is just the random fluctuation of results.

Most of us on this board appreciate the wealth of basketball knowledge you have accumulated over the past 70+ years. However, as a visitor to this site, it is not very fulfilling when you simply cite your vast experience as the sole source of support for your opinions. When you state an opinion (such as teams wasting points), it would be great if you could give us a little more insight regarding the logic behind that assertion.

Geno out karmad himself


OK, which is the more plausible explanation? 1. There is an intangible basketball force that seeks to punish teams who have not played according to some unwritten rule(s). 2. MSU outplayed UConn, both defensively and in terms of offensive execution down the stretch? Only the latter is supported by hard evidence.

Lastly, that flagrant foul call was garbage. The replay showed the MSU defender barely grazed Samuelson's neck, and Samuelson exaggerated the contact. I am shocked that the officials determined there was indisputable evidence that the contact fit one of the criteria below. Fortunately, that call did not cost MSU the game.

A flagrant 1 personal foul is a personal foul that is deemed excessive in nature and/or unncessary, but is not based solely on the severity of the act. Examples include, but are not limited to:

1. Causing excessive contact with an opponent;
2. Contact that is not a legitimate attempt to play the ball or player, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting;
3. Pushing or holding a player from behind to prevent a score;
4. Fouling a player clearly away from the ball who is not directly involved with the play, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting;
5. Contact with a player making a throw-in. This act shall also serve as a team warning for reaching through the boundary;
6. Illegal contact caused by swinging of an elbow that is deemed excessive or unncessary but does not rise to the level of a flagrant 2 personal foul.
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Re: UConn Loses, UConn Loses

Postby bcbc55 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:24 pm

MaineBBFan99 wrote:What a great showcase for women's basketball on the national stage!

There is no such thing as wasting points Bob. You don't have a finite amount of baskets that can be scored in a season. That is just foolish. Each coach doesn't get a list of "your team is allowed to score 3,312 points this year, and no more than that, use them wisely." How can you even type something like that?


Completely agree with this. Coach Cimbollek, with all due respect, the idea that UConn "wasted" points in previous games makes absolutely no sense to me, and there is no way to conclusively prove such a statement. Teams do not have a finite well of points in a season. Rather, great teams occasionally have an off night offensively - statistically speaking, that is just the random fluctuation of results.

Most of us on this board appreciate the wealth of basketball knowledge you have accumulated over the past 70+ years. However, as a visitor to this site, it is not very fulfilling when you simply cite your vast experience as the sole source of support for your opinions. When you state an opinion (such as teams wasting points), it would be great if you could give us a little more insight regarding the logic behind that assertion.

Geno out karmad himself


OK, which is the more plausible explanation? 1. There is an intangible basketball force that seeks to punish teams who have not played according to some unwritten rule(s). 2. MSU outplayed UConn, both defensively and in terms of offensive execution down the stretch? Only the latter is supported by hard evidence.

Lastly, that flagrant foul call was garbage. The replay showed the MSU defender barely grazed Samuelson's neck, and Samuelson exaggerated the contact. I am shocked that the officials determined there was indisputable evidence that the contact fit one of the criteria below. Fortunately, that call did not cost MSU the game.

A flagrant 1 personal foul is a personal foul that is deemed excessive in nature and/or unncessary, but is not based solely on the severity of the act. Examples include, but are not limited to:

1. Causing excessive contact with an opponent;
2. Contact that is not a legitimate attempt to play the ball or player, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting;
3. Pushing or holding a player from behind to prevent a score;
4. Fouling a player clearly away from the ball who is not directly involved with the play, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting;
5. Contact with a player making a throw-in. This act shall also serve as a team warning for reaching through the boundary;
6. Illegal contact caused by swinging of an elbow that is deemed excessive or unncessary but does not rise to the level of a flagrant 2 personal foul.


mainebBBFan99: And you certainly respect your right to disagree with me. I know I am unorthodox in my basketball thinking always have been as a player, coach, official and fan.

Let's just agree to disagree on those points.

1. I never ran the score up just to score points just to waste them when I didn't need to not like last year in sweet 16 when Geno running it up on MS 98-38, because I firmly believe in basketball "Karma".

2. Yes, MS outplayed UConn without a doubt. However, what shouldn't be overlooked at all was that the MS coach completely out coached Geno. MS coach made adjustments Geo didn't.

MS had nothing to due with the UConn player not waiting until 8 seconds to go to the hoop instead of going to the hoop at the 12 second mark.

Did Geno remind them or not tell them to wait until 8 seconds?

What did MS have to do with Geno not pressing MS so as to speed up the tempo of the game so they would get more than 46 FGA's to MS 62.

What did MS have to do with Geno not half court trapping Williams with a double team and then as soon as she stopped dribbling drop off the shorter of the two trapping defenders which would have made it very difficult for her to get rid of the ball and if she did get rid of it at least she didn't have the ball to create for her teammates.

3. Talked with somebody who is involved with rule making an officiating at the national level and was told that was the correct call on the flagrant one, and they felt that what was bad was the call being missed originally and then having to go to the video after the foul had taken place.

Also talked with a couple of college officials who I used to officiate with and they said the same thing, flagrant 1 foul and the same problem in calling it when it happened and having to go to the video.

Just my opinion and this time it is certainly based on facts and other people's opinions.
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Re: UConn Loses, UConn Loses

Postby waltwhite » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:32 pm

Mbfan99. Listen to bcbc. He knows. Karma is real. I know. Trust me. i found a five dollar bill at hannafords and kept it. Then a week later I fell and scraped my knees. I went to hannaford and bought band aids. Guess the cost. Yes. 4.99.
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Re: UConn Loses, UConn Loses

Postby bcbc55 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:40 pm

waltwhite wrote:Mbfan99. Listen to bcbc. He knows. Karma is real. I know. Trust me. i found a five dollar bill at hannafords and kept it. Then a week later I fell and scraped my knees. I went to hannaford and bought band aids. Guess the cost. Yes. 4.99.


WW: Thanks for the "Karma" support. Tough KARMA in your situation.
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Re: UConn Loses, UConn Loses

Postby Linguist » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:58 am

Okay Bob,

So if a team can score too many points in one game and waste them for another, and you believed this was 100% true. Can you tell me when you played or (more likely) when you coached an entity from the MPA, or the Basketball Hall of Fame, or the Ghost of Jimmy Naismith showed up and told you exactly how many points you were allowed to score in a given season? If it's true it can be proven. If it's Karma it's make believe and holds the same value as the myth of a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

Or perhaps, Mississippi State played better defense and controlled the pace of the game, and executed their game plan better than UConn did.
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Re: UConn Loses, UConn Loses

Postby bcbc55 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:28 pm

Linguist wrote:Okay Bob,

So if a team can score too many points in one game and waste them for another, and you believed this was 100% true. Can you tell me when you played or (more likely) when you coached an entity from the MPA, or the Basketball Hall of Fame, or the Ghost of Jimmy Naismith showed up and told you exactly how many points you were allowed to score in a given season? If it's true it can be proven. If it's Karma it's make believe and holds the same value as the myth of a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

Or perhaps, Mississippi State played better defense and controlled the pace of the game, and executed their game plan better than UConn did.
l=

Linquist: Your missing my point. By wasting points running up the score like he did last year with his 98-38 win over MS in the sweet 16 round is the kind of how little feelings or little respect he had for MS or the game in that situation.

So if he had beaten them by 30 instead if 60 maybe "Basketball Karma" wouldn't have come into play.

The game gives back what you give and how much you respect the game. Intentionally running up the score anywhere at any level is not respecting the game.

It isn't being allotted so many points in the season like you have been trying to get across. It is like the "GOLDEN RULE", "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Run it up intentionally and embarrass your opponents
and you are flirting with "Basketball Karma".

Now on to MS's defense which was excellent. However, it was more the game plan of slowing the tempo down to limit UConn's offensive possession which kept the game in the 60's for an overtime game,

UConn got only off 46 shots compared to MS's 62.

UConn was averaging 87.1 points per game offensively and defensively were giving up just 54.6 PPG.

It was the strategy of slowing down the game and playing the shot clock that kept the score down more than it did MS's defense which of course helped.

Difference in MS's loss to So. Carolina wasn't there poor inside defense as much as it was they didn't slow the tempo of the game down like they did vs. UCONN and allowed SC to play at the tempo the were comfortable with. Had MS employed that same strategy then it would have limited the number of offensive touches that Wilson and Gray would have got in the game, in THE PAINT WHERE THEY OUTSCORED MS 42-20 AND WON THE GAME.

Also by not playing at a slower pace seeing that they had lost twice to SC 64-61 in the regular season and 59-49 in the Conference Tourney they might have tried to slow it down again as they allowed SC too many offensive possessions as SC got 55 FGA's, 9 more than UConn got and they had 25 FGM to UConn's 20.

Also, SC did not stick it in the ear of MS like UConn had done last year in the tourney. SC had no bad "Basketball Karma" going against them even though they had beaten MS twice this season.

Seeing SC had beaten MS twice I was very surprised that MS didn't use the same game plan strategy of playing at a much slower tempo against SC that they did against UConn.

Maye they thought that they were a little better than they thought they were after their big upset win over UConn an "Basketball karma" got to them a little,

Also, not playing William in the 4th quarter certainly didn't help their cause. Poor coaching decision regardless of how upset the coach was with her play in the previous 3 quarters..

I don't care if you think "Basketball Karma" is a myth or not all I know is I never intentionally ran the score up on anybody as I respected the game too much to do that.

I also believe how you treat the game has a way of paying you back with the same respect or disrespect you show for it

I'm just agreeing to disagree with you.

"What floats your basketball boat may not float my basketball boat".

I know I am a very unorthodox basketball thinker and was as a player, coach and official.

Or could it be that it is just "Different basketball strokes for different basketball folks"????????????????????????????????????????
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Re: UConn Loses, UConn Loses

Postby Linguist » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:55 pm

ahhh, Respect for the game. I will give you that. (But a lack of respect will never end up costing you a game a year later)

I too believe no one should win/lose a game by 50, neither team gains anything from that. It happened in this tournament too. But South Carolina beat UNC Ashville by 50 in the opening round, why didn't respect or karma bite them in the title game?

South Carolina put 100 on the board against Quinnipiac in the Sweet 16 why didn't the Karma boogeyman come and get them then?

I agree with you that coaches should respect the game and the opponent and not run up the score to embarrass another team but sometimes there is such a disparity in talent nothing can be done about it. This isn't Class B Eastern Maine baseketball in 1988 when a team can hold the ball for an entire quarter because there is no shot clock. These teams have to get a shot up every 30 seconds, and if South Carolina is a lot better than UNC Ashville and they make 55% of their shots and UNC-Ashville can't defend or stop them, blowouts happen.

My debate was your contention there is a finite number of points a team is allowed to score, you've backed off that stance now, so that is good.

Enjoy your day.
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