What are Bob Walsh & Karlton Creech hiding?

Post info or Comments: UMaine and other D1 Schools / Topics

Re: What are Bob Walsh & Karlton Creech hiding?

Postby bcbc55 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:32 pm

Mainebballer wrote:Getting worked up over nothing. The basketball program doesn't "owe" any explanation. In truth, the very strong likelihood is that there are privacy issues that mandate that the school NOT reveal the infractions that caused the suspension. There are legal issues that often prohibit the release of that kind of information. Bob Walsh, to those who know him, is a good man, a good coach and not someone who's going to tolerate shenanigans by his players. People should be overjoyed to have him as the coach. He won't "cheat," he won't take borderline students. He understands that "athlete" comes first in the student-athlete equation. When it comes to teaching life's lessons, that comes first over winning at all costs. He is trying to do things the right way. I've been reading this board for years. Finally registered to post because I'm sick and tired of a bunch of no-nothings thinking they have all the answers, or thinking Maine should be the best team in the league. That's not likely. Do you guys/gals know how difficult it is to recruit players to Maine? Have a clue.


Mr. Mainebballer: WELCOME ABOARD MBR AS A POSTER.

That is painting most everybody on this site with a broad brush with your "Quote of....a bunch of no-nothings thinking they have all the answers or thinking Maine should be the best team in the league.UnQuote".

2 Questions for you.
When was the last time the men's BB program had a winning season ans why did they?

What is he secret in successfully getting Maine born players to come to Maine?

NO I don't think Maine should win the league every year, but they should be able to finish .500 in conference play and win a tourney game once every 5 years.

You and TAL1957 should get along great he really needs a buddy like you.
bcbc55
 
Posts: 9507
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 5:44 am

Re: What are Bob Walsh & Karlton Creech hiding?

Postby bcbc55 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:00 pm

Mainebballer wrote:I'd say the phraseology a "bunch of know-nothings" doesn't paint so broadly a stroke that it includes everyone. But, I'm making a strong guess that the responsible, intelligent posters can tell which ones fall into that category. I don't need to ID them.
Recruit players from Maine? You'll have to let us know how many men from our great state are having success at the D-I level right now. Not very many, right?
And, the other thing is that Bangor/Orono isn't exactly a destination location. I'm sure there's something to be said about playing for the home-state D-I program, but ... some other mid-major with warmer weather, a better campus, different majors offered, etc, comes calling and it's pretty easy to turn down UMaine.
There seem to be many, many more D-I level female players coming out of our state. But, I don't see any of them going to our state school, either.
I'll leave it to the know-somethings to enlighten us about that.


Mainebballer: You dodged my two specific questions...are you a politican? Until you answer them I not interested in responding to your post(s).
bcbc55
 
Posts: 9507
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 5:44 am

Re: What are Bob Walsh & Karlton Creech hiding?

Postby augie » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:13 pm

Mainebballer wrote:Getting worked up over nothing. The basketball program doesn't "owe" any explanation. In truth, the very strong likelihood is that there are privacy issues that mandate that the school NOT reveal the infractions that caused the suspension. There are legal issues that often prohibit the release of that kind of information. Bob Walsh, to those who know him, is a good man, a good coach and not someone who's going to tolerate shenanigans by his players. People should be overjoyed to have him as the coach. He won't "cheat," he won't take borderline students. He understands that "athlete" comes first in the student-athlete equation. When it comes to teaching life's lessons, that comes first over winning at all costs. He is trying to do things the right way. I've been reading this board for years. Finally registered to post because I'm sick and tired of a bunch of know-nothings thinking they have all the answers, or thinking Maine should be the best team in the league. That's not likely. Do you guys/gals know how difficult it is to recruit players to Maine? Have a clue.


I am sure Bob is a great guy and coach however we're 3 years in and UMaine is currently 6-24 overall and 2-13 in conference. This is Division 1 basketball, where results are paramount, it's not the NESCAC.
augie
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:06 pm

Re: What are Bob Walsh & Karlton Creech hiding?

Postby mainejeff » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:09 pm

Bob Walsh is a good coach.

I am overjoyed to have him as the UM coach.
User avatar
mainejeff
 
Posts: 17952
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:20 pm

Re: What are Bob Walsh & Karlton Creech hiding?

Postby bcbc55 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:22 pm

Mainebballer wrote:bcbc55: Seems to me you're better than me at dodging questions. Guess that would make you the quintessential politician.

Here are the questions, again, that I posed to you that you declined to answer:
1) How many Maine-native men's players are there having any success at D-I programs anywhere?
2) What makes Maine so attractive a destination for men's basketball players?
3) Why, considering how many real standout Maine female players that have come through our state (and, continue to) in recent years, are there so few of them at Maine?
Until you answer those questions, I am not interested in continuing to respond to your post(s).

But, here's the answer to your questions:
If memory serves, the last Maine men's team to finish better than .500 overall was the 2009-10 season (19-11). You'll have to tell me the reason for that though, other than good out-of-are recruiting. The leading scorer came in from San Diego, the third-leading scorer came in from, I believe, Florida. The fourth-leading scorer came from NYC.
So, it certainly wasn't a product of bringing in players from our state.
Just shows that it can happen, but that it doesn't happen very often.
The secret in getting Maine-born players to go to Maine? There is no secret to this: a) there just aren't very many good boys' players coming out of Maine. b) Our state's school isn't exactly a destination location for any players.

So, I'll leave the answers to you.


mainebballer: I'll answer yours lst.
1. 6'9" Mayo-Eastern Kentucky, 6'10" Cimino-American (sitting out transfer year), 6'8" McDevitt Franklin-Pierce,
6'7" Stewart-Colby, Z6'5" Z. Gilpin-Bentley, 6'3" N. Gilpin-Bates, 6'5" Bess-Stonehill,

2. Don't need them...going with 2 Mainers each year giving me 8 players 2 in and 2 out each year

3. They don't know how to recruit them properly both men and women

Answers to my questions

1. Last Winning year: right 2009-10 19-10 under
Woodward

2. Recruiting secret (also answer to your no 3 question.

A.Tell recruit and parents that you want to develop philospohy of Maine basketballers vs. the rest of D-1 college basketball world using mostly Maine players to do that. When Maine ever makes the "Big Dance " in the schools history you want to do it with at least 8 players on the Maine roster.

B. Tell them that you want for what is in the best interest of the recruits chances to play D-1 college basketball and that Maine would like to have him at Maine very much. However his interest comes first and that we feel that any Maine high school player who wants to successful at the D-1 level has got to go to prep school for a year after high school.. We will help you get a scholarship at a good prep school with no obligation to come to Maine.

Now you realize that you might loe him to another school because of his prep school performance and if he chooses to go elsewhere, you will be v ery disappointed, but will wish him well, but if at anytime he might want to return to Maine to give us a call, as we always have 2 or 3 scholarships available is because we want 8 Mainers on our roster each year if possibly. Then we use 3 scholarships for out of state or international players to fill our position needs usually BIGS. Now this means we have used 11 scholarships and leaves us 3 for transfers, JUCO's or late signees that become available.

Also, remind them that the reason most if not all recruiters do not want a recruit to go to prep cool for a year after HS is because they might lose them to another school. Who are they really interested in, the recruit or themselves and their school????????????????

Then to fill out our roster we will have on campus open tryouts for our open roster spots to make up a 14 man roster
bcbc55
 
Posts: 9507
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 5:44 am

Re: What are Bob Walsh & Karlton Creech hiding?

Postby bcbc55 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:33 pm

bcbc55 wrote:
Mainebballer wrote:bcbc55: Seems to me you're better than me at dodging questions. Guess that would make you the quintessential politician.

Here are the questions, again, that I posed to you that you declined to answer:
1) How many Maine-native men's players are there having any success at D-I programs anywhere?
2) What makes Maine so attractive a destination for men's basketball players?
3) Why, considering how many real standout Maine female players that have come through our state (and, continue to) in recent years, are there so few of them at Maine?
Until you answer those questions, I am not interested in continuing to respond to your post(s).

But, here's the answer to your questions:
If memory serves, the last Maine men's team to finish better than .500 overall was the 2009-10 season (19-11). You'll have to tell me the reason for that though, other than good out-of-are recruiting. The leading scorer came in from San Diego, the third-leading scorer came in from, I believe, Florida. The fourth-leading scorer came from NYC.
So, it certainly wasn't a product of bringing in players from our state.
Just shows that it can happen, but that it doesn't happen very often.
The secret in getting Maine-born players to go to Maine? There is no secret to this: a) there just aren't very many good boys' players coming out of Maine. b) Our state's school isn't exactly a destination location for any players.

So, I'll leave the answers to you.


mainebballer: I'll answer yours lst.
1. 6'9" Mayo-Eastern Kentucky, 6'10" Cimino-American (sitting out transfer year), 6'8" McDevitt Franklin-Pierce,
6'7" Stewart-Colby, Z6'5" Z. Gilpin-Bentley, 6'3" N. Gilpin-Bates, 6'5" Bess-Stonehill,

2. Don't need them...going with 2 Mainers each year giving me 8 players 2 in and 2 out each year

3. They don't know how to recruit them properly both men and women

Answers to my questions

1. Last Winning year: right 2009-10 19-10 under
Woodward

2. Recruiting secret (also answer to your no 3 question.

A.Tell recruit and parents that you want to develop philospohy of Maine basketballers vs. the rest of D-1 college basketball world using mostly Maine players to do that. When Maine ever makes the "Big Dance " in the schools history you want to do it with at least 8 players on the Maine roster.

B. Tell them that you want for what is in the best interest of the recruits chances to play D-1 college basketball and that Maine would like to have him at Maine very much. However his interest comes first and that we feel that any Maine high school player who wants to successful at the D-1 level has got to go to prep school for a year after high school.. We will help you get a scholarship at a good prep school with no obligation to come to Maine.

Now you realize that you might loe him to another school because of his prep school performance and if he chooses to go elsewhere, you will be v ery disappointed, but will wish him well, but if at anytime he might want to return to Maine to give us a call, as we always have 2 or 3 scholarships available is because we want 8 Mainers on our roster each year if possibly. Then we use 3 scholarships for out of state or international players to fill our position needs usually BIGS. Now this means we have used 11 scholarships and leaves us 3 for transfers, JUCO's or late signees that become available.

Also, remind them that the reason most if not all recruiters do not want a recruit to go to prep cool for a year after HS is because they might lose them to another school. Who are they really interested in, the recruit or themselves and their school????????????????

Then to fill out our roster we will have on campus open tryouts for our open roster spots to make up a 14 man roster.

Those are my answers to my 1 questions.

Plus, we certainly can't do much worse the 3-27, 8-22 an d 6-23 for 17-73 for the past 2 plus seasons. Also, we certainly would draw better with Mainers on the court even if we aren't doing any worse then currently is happening.

History of Maine men's basketball shows that the most successful years going back to the 50;s up to today was when Maine players were starters and key players in what little of Maine's men's basketball success over the years.
bcbc55
 
Posts: 9507
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 5:44 am

Re: What are Bob Walsh & Karlton Creech hiding?

Postby TAL1957 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:03 am

bcbc55 wrote: 3. They don't know how to recruit them properly both men and women
:lol: :lol: :lol: Yeah, ... Right ... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Just a bunch of inexperienced, unqualified folks up there on the MBB coaching staff (and apparently the WBB staff as well). Always will be absent bcbc being in charge of recruiting, or at least playing a major role in the program and being publically recognized as the contemporary D1 basketball genius he is !! :o

But maybe you could post all of that again Bob, ..... and again, ..... and again, .... and again, .... just to make it true (in your mind) / :roll:

YES, the UMaine MBB program is indeed a trainwreck right now. There, I said it.

BUT no, No, NO, NO !!!!
... putting together and playing a team that is comprised of 55% or more native-born Mainers, and with only Head Coach(es) who are native-born Mainers, is Most Definitely NOT the answer to making the program competitive in todays D1, and America East, environment.

That is just delusional, outdated and reflective of a host of other issues, biases and just a bad understanding of today's college athletics environment and realities, D1 college athletes, and what UMaine is, AND Is Not. Guess we'll just have to continue reading through that same stuff over, and over, and over, and over again. And again. And again. And again. And ..... ad infinitum .......
... Oh, let me guess .... "Well if you don't like it TAL, just don't read them" ... :roll:
TAL1957
 
Posts: 4820
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:04 pm

Re: What are Bob Walsh & Karlton Creech hiding?

Postby TheMike » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:23 am

Here's my thoughts on how to recruit, although some might not like my honesty.

This program is going no place until they start winning. UMaine isn't exactly a hotbed of basketball that draws recruits. Here's what needs to happen IMO:

First, set a realistic goal. Recognize that Maine is never going to be Kentucky, UF, or Gonzaga so don't be upset when Maine doesn't get the players who go to the "real" D-1 schools. And be happy when that goal is attained even if that goal is only to be consistently over .500 and winning the conference championship one year in ten.

Then get the talent in here to get a winning record in the conference. Do it by going to the mid-level schools, identify the 7th-10th players on the bench at those schools and offer them scholarships to Maine. Tell them that they can either sit on the bench for XXX school and watch while their team finishes in the middle of the pack or they can come to a weaker conference, play, and contribute to a championship run. I believe that would lure some players who are unhappy with their playing time to come to Maine. Do you remember Gianinni and how he got Fox & Bedard? Oh.. and did I mention that Maine is a pretty good academic school, too?

Once the program starts to win with the talent "from away" it will become more attractive to the local players who recognize that they're "pretty good" but will never play in the NBA. Then Maine can start to control the recruiting of the 2nd level players in the state to compliment the out of state players.

Those guys like Bedard, Mayo and Caner-Medley are chasing a dream and they're not coming to Maine - at least not until they learn whether that dream can be realized. Instead focus on the 2nd tier who live closer to Orono. These are they players who may want to play locally but only for a contender, and could be the #4-7 players on a conference competitor.

I know. It's easier said than done, but we cannot continue to delude ourselves by thinking that we're going to put a team of 5-6 Maine kids on the floor and expect to be competitive.
TheMike
 
Posts: 1234
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:14 pm
Location: Prospect

Re: What are Bob Walsh & Karlton Creech hiding?

Postby mainejeff » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:02 am

I love how everyone assumes that players from Maine WANT to stay in Maine. :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: This isn't 1950 when no one knew what existed beyond the Maine border. There are many places in this country.....some are better than Maine and some are worse.....but they are ALL different. Young adulthood is a time to get out and see the world and experience new things. Students from out-of-state take a totally different view of UMaine and Orono. The school has a much better reputation out-of-state. That is a credit to the school which is pretty good academically and the marketing dept which has been very impressive over the past decade. The Northeast has a ton of good schools....wen you get outside the Northeast....not so much. Then there is the athletic side....this is where UMaine really fails in comparison to their counterparts.

UM has always spread themselves too thin....that is the biggest problem. Someone look up the number of D-1 schools that sponsor basketball, football, baseball & hockey...and get back to me. UM should be concentrating on 1 or 2 sports...period. Basketball wise...players from the State of Maine aren't going to help and when 1 comes along every 5 years they've got so many "advisors" whispering in their ear that it is impossible for UM to be considered seriously. Also, the way that basketball is played and officiated in the State of Maine is a JOKE. Still the 1950s....very SLOW and unathletic. Hard to play D as well when every ticky tack is called.
User avatar
mainejeff
 
Posts: 17952
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:20 pm

Re: What are Bob Walsh & Karlton Creech hiding?

Postby bulldog » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:26 am

mainejeff wrote:This isn't 1950 when no one knew what existed beyond the Maine border. There are many places in this country.....some are better than Maine and some are worse.....but they are ALL different. Young adulthood is a time to get out and see the world and experience new things. Students from out-of-state take a totally different view of UMaine and Orono. The school has a much better reputation out-of-state. That is a credit to the school which is pretty good academically and the marketing dept which has been very impressive over the past decade.


Well said MJ. UM has a great deal to offer students and student-athletes, but it is not for everyone. I do not think that basketball can win with an abundance of Maine players. Some Maine kids can play at Maine, but...there are not a lot who can be impact players on the court. I think Football and Baseball are different, where Maine kids can have more of an impact at the DI level, but those sports also need help from outside. Hockey has very few kids from Maine who can be impact players.
bulldog
 
Posts: 252
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:34 am

PreviousNext

Return to UMaine and other D1 Schools / Topics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aechamps, thebam, turkeyman and 47 guests