UMaine BB Teams shooting %'s below good HS %'s

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UMaine BB Teams shooting %'s below good HS %'s

Postby bcbc55 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:25 am

Both the UMaine Men's and Women's basketball teams are going to have their shooting percentages improve immediately if they expect to have a chance to win a game come tourney time.

Let's compare their conference shooting stats for 11 games, for their 15 non-conference games and their combined overall 26 games.


Conference 11 games.FG%.....3pt%.....FS%
Men......................40.6....25.7.....67.0
Women..................41.0....32.0.....61.7

Non-Conf 15 games...
Men......................40.7....34.3.....65.7
Women..................40.0....30.0.....64.5

Combined 26 games
Men......................40.6....30.9.....66.3
Women..................40.4....30.6.....63.5

Combined and Conference stats taken from goblackbears.com website and 15 non-conference games stats came by subtracting 11 conference games from the 26 overall games to get the 15 non-conference percentages

Their combined shooting percentages are below for good H.S. teams %'s.

Considering the main object of the game is to put the round 9" in diameter ball into the round 18" diameter basket which is twice the size of the men's basketball ball and 1 inch less for the women's 8 1/2" ball, both teams have a ways to go to get to the needed shooting percentages in order to win a tournament game.

But the problem is when the one and done season comes the ball seems to get bigger and the rim seems to get smaller so both teams face........something called "shooting under pressure".

At this time there is less pressure on the men because of their 6-20 overall record and 2-9 conference record to the women's 13-13 overall record to their 6-5 conference, but the men will face a higher seeded team in the AE quarter-finals then the women will.

The rim is still 10 feet from the floor, the diameter of the rim is still 18 inches and foul line is 15 feet from the backboard where the rim attaches to the backboard and 13' 9" from the middle of the rim and the balls are still the same diameter of 9" for men and 8 1/2 inches for the women. Circumference for the men's is 29 inches and 28 1/2 inches for the women's.

Why are both teams shooting so poorly? Could it be poor shot selection? Too many 3's? Too many quick shots into shot clock? Not taking enough time on the foul line? Poor shooting fundamentals and techniques? Too much free lance offense which let's the players decide who shoots and when? Not enough set plays where the offense decides who shoots and when?

There is still time to correct these percentages. But if the current coaching staffs can't help them which seems they haven't been able to do so far this season maybe, just maybe, they should look for some help.

WHAT DO YOU THINK WHY BOTH TEAMS ARE SHOOTING SO POORLY?
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Re: UMaine BB Teams shooting %'s below good HS %'s

Postby TAL1957 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:00 am

bcbc55 wrote:Both the UMaine Men's and Women's basketball teams are going to have their shooting percentages improve immediately if they expect to have a chance to win a game come tourney time.
Not necessarily.
Pretty broad statement that ignores other equally, or more, significant factors and variables. :roll:
Yeah, they need to shoot better than their regular season, multi-game Average,
BUT, ....................... they certainly also still "have a chance" to win a tourney game even if they don't. :roll: :roll:
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Re: UMaine BB Teams shooting %'s below good HS %'s

Postby bcbc55 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:18 am

TAL1957 wrote:
bcbc55 wrote:Both the UMaine Men's and Women's basketball teams are going to have their shooting percentages improve immediately if they expect to have a chance to win a game come tourney time.
Not necessarily.
Pretty broad statement that ignores other equally, or more, significant factors and variables. :roll:
Yeah, they need to shoot better than their regular season, multi-game Average,
BUT, ....................... they certainly also still "have a chance" to win a tourney game even if they don't. :roll: :roll:


Tal: Maybe the women can survive a poor shooting nite against a lower seeded team but the men can't against a Vermont, Stonybrook, UMBC, UNH or even Albany for that matter because that is who they will probably draw one of those teams in quarter-finals.

What significant variables do you mean? These non offensive stats
11 Men's Game Conference team stats in the 22nd ranked D-1 conference out of 32 D-1 conferences:

1. 6th in 74.1 ppg defense
2.9th in defense against the 3 @ 40.5%
3. 9th in FG% defense @ 50.4%
4. 8th in assist to turnover ratio
5. 7th defensive in margin of points per game -12.5
8. 8th in assists'10.8 per game
9. 8th in rebound margin -3.3 per game
10. 8th offensive rebounds

These variables are no better then the offensive scoring averages so you still think that they can win a game against one of the top 5 teams in the tourney based on these statistics without improving their field goal %, 3 point percentages and their foul shooting percentages?

Good shooting can cover a lot of these poor defense and poor rebounding, low assists numbers, and high turnovers and poor assist to turnover ratios variables. That is why I stated that they have got to improve all their offensive shooting percentages to cover their defensive weaknesses unless the improve on the defensive side of the ball.

Offensively speaking a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while so maybe the men can find a real hot shooting night in the quarterfinal game,

The women's defense should keep them in a poor shooting night against a lower seeded team in their quarter-final game.

Statistically the Odds favor the women to win a quarter-final game then it does the men's team based on team statistics of today. However things can change in the remaining 5 games they each have left so let's wait and see if they both can improve their over all shooting percentages before the one and done touranment.
Last edited by bcbc55 on Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UMaine BB Teams shooting %'s below good HS %'s

Postby MaineBBFan99 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:26 pm

bcbc55 wrote:Their combined shooting percentages are below for good H.S. teams %'s.


This is such a broad statement, and, as such, doesn't really carry much weight. How many high school teams would you categorize as "good"? Do you have evidence supporting this assertion?

bcbc55 wrote:WHAT DO YOU THINK WHY BOTH TEAMS ARE SHOOTING SO POORLY?


I follow the women's team more closely, so I will speak to their situation. The short answer is, they're not shooting as poorly as you might think ... at least relative to the other 8 conference teams. In fact, Maine actually leads the conference in effective field goal percentage (which again, takes into account the fact that a 3 is worth 1.5 times more than a 2-point shot). Are teams that rely more heavily on the three point shot more prone to a poor shooting night, and hence more vulnerable in a single elimination tournament? Absolutely. But, to TAL's point, it is not reasonable to make the leap that the women's team needs to improve their shooting immediately "to have a chance" at winning a game in the tournament.
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Re: UMaine BB Teams shooting %'s below good HS %'s

Postby bcbc55 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:09 pm

MaineBBFan99 wrote:
bcbc55 wrote:Their combined shooting percentages are below for good H.S. teams %'s.


This is such a broad statement, and, as such, doesn't really carry much weight. How many high school teams would you categorize as "good"? Do you have evidence supporting this assertion?

bcbc55 wrote:WHAT DO YOU THINK WHY BOTH TEAMS ARE SHOOTING SO POORLY?


I follow the women's team more closely, so I will speak to their situation. The short answer is, they're not shooting as poorly as you might think ... at least relative to the other 8 conference teams. In fact, Maine actually leads the conference in effective field goal percentage (which again, takes into account the fact that a 3 is worth 1.5 times more than a 2-point shot). Are teams that rely more heavily on the three point shot more prone to a poor shooting night, and hence more vulnerable in a single elimination tournament? Absolutely. But, to TAL's point, it is not reasonable to make the leap that the women's team needs to improve their shooting immediately "to have a chance" at winning a game in the tournament.


MaineBBFan99: I agree there are not very many good shooting high school girls teams or boys teams overall, so maybe a poor comparison. However I would not accept either UMaine's men's or women's teams shooting percentages as a coach for any team without trying to improve their shooting fundamentals even if they were a college team.

I don't think either coaching staff has shown the ability to correct the poor shooting fundamentals and poor shot selection because if they could it would already have been done by now seeing they are at least 80% through their games and if they have tried then whatever they did certainly has not worked.

After all the season is over 80% over with just 5 conference games to go not including the tourney.

There is no way as a coach that I could accept the shooting %'s that the UMaine's 2 teams are shooting right now.

The reasons my H.S. Boys Teams did not shoot below the percentages I listed in the original posts was because we took good high percentage shots, went inside-outside for threes and tried to get the ball to the low post a lot more then either UMaine team does.

When my individual players could not shoot acceptable percentages I personally worked with them to get them to acceptable percentages. That is part of effective coaching and why coaches at all levels do not work on shooting fundamentals more today is a mystery to me.

If I had to guess why they don't at any level I would say that they are not comfortable or cannot demonstrate the proper and successful fundamentals of shooting well enough to have their players buy into the changes that the coaches want them to make.

My players had no choices if they couldn't shoot 40% from the floor I changed them, if they couldn't shoot 30% from 3 point line I changed them and the same with foul shooting if they couldn't shoot 60%.

But with today's players to get them to buy in and be coachable to improve their shooting basic fundamental techniques they have to be SHOWN by their coach how you want them to do it. NOT TELL THEM how to do it. In other words "do as I do, not as I say"!

With the use of video taping this is much easier to do successfully, "as a picture is worth a thousand words" and a "correct successful demonstration is also worth a thousand words".

I can't believe when many college coaches are recruiting players that they cannot see which players need help with their fundamental shooting skills before they sign them along with their shot selection and which ones would be the most coachable and receptable to work on the correct shooting fundamentals technique skills during the individual time they are allowed to work with their players before pre-season starts.

The basket is still 18 inches in diameter and 10 feet from the floor. The foul line is still 15 feet from the where the rim attaches to the backboard. The basketball sizes are still the same diameter and circumferences and the 3 point line is the only thing that has changed for colleges from the high school line today to a foot longer.

Nothing has changed in shooting fundamentals over the years except for the 3 point line and that has hurt the game more than it has helped the game at all levels.

I did say that the women could survive a poor shooting game much better than the men's team as they are better defensively.

The women do go inside more then the men and they only use 7 players versus the men's 9.

However, just because the women 's shooting percentages are higher then the other teams in the conference doesn't always mean that they can overcome poor shooting %'s especially in the one and done tournament.

One bad quarter like the women have had in the 3rd quarters of some road games they have lost just will not cut it in tourney games.

In my opinion neither team run enough set offenses or screens to the ball to survive a bad shooting night unless their opponents shoot poorer than them. "Live by the 3 you may well die by the 3".

In the win or go home situations the ball seems to get bigger and the rim seems to get smaller......that is called shooting under pressure.

Which of the 2 UMaine teams can shoot the stats percentages they are shooting right now in conference play and still win the tournament?

I would say possibly the women.

All of this post is just my opinions, but just like noses every one has one!

Take it for what you think it's worth?

You decide can many current college or high school coaches really improve their players shooting percentages by demonstrating the correct shooting techniques successfully so that their players readily buy into making the needed changes to their shooting techniques to improve their shooting percentages and shot selection.

Those that cannot, usually have teams that have shooting percentages and shot selection like the two UMaine basketball teams are currently shooting for 11 conference games and 15 non-conference games.
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Re: UMaine BB Teams shooting %'s below good HS %'s

Postby TAL1957 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:16 am

Please provide more detail and explanation. ??
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :o
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Re: UMaine BB Teams shooting %'s below good HS %'s

Postby TAL1957 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:26 am

bcbc55 wrote: ... However I would not accept either UMaine's men's or women's teams shooting percentages as a coach for any team without trying to improve their shooting fundamentals even if they were a college team.

I don't think either coaching staff has shown the ability to correct the poor shooting fundamentals and poor shot selection because if they could it would already have been done by now ...
Gee, I'll bet they never thought of that and haven't worked on it at all. If only someone as gifted as an ex-HS Coach was available to help, it'd be like a magic wand passed over all their heads, And WahLah !!! :roll: :roll: :lol:

Kinda like trying to get an old guy to "Practice" ... using fewer, far fewer !, "Words better Said". I.e., the journalist/writer mantra: "Use Fewer Words, ... Better Said" (versus rambling on and on and on ..... needlessly) ??

Similar "teaching/coaching" challenge in both situations, similar results so far (unfortunately). :? :(
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Re: UMaine BB Teams shooting %'s below good HS %'s

Postby bcbc55 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:31 pm

TAL1957 wrote:
bcbc55 wrote: ... However I would not accept either UMaine's men's or women's teams shooting percentages as a coach for any team without trying to improve their shooting fundamentals even if they were a college team.

I don't think either coaching staff has shown the ability to correct the poor shooting fundamentals and poor shot selection because if they could it would already have been done by now ...
Gee, I'll bet they never thought of that and haven't worked on it at all. If only someone as gifted as an ex-HS Coach was available to help, it'd be like a magic wand passed over all their heads, And WahLah !!! :roll: :roll: :lol:

Kinda like trying to get an old guy to "Practice" ... using fewer, far fewer !, "Words better Said". I.e., the journalist/writer mantra: "Use Fewer Words, ... Better Said" (versus rambling on and on and on ..... needlessly) ??

Similar "teaching/coaching" challenge in both situations, similar results so far (unfortunately). :? :(


T:

IF TRIED, not worked especially men.

GUARENTEED IMPROVE IF COACHABLE.

AGREED Less I's.
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Re: UMaine BB Teams shooting %'s below good HS %'s

Postby bulldog » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:08 pm

bcbc55 wrote:Nothing has changed in shooting fundamentals over the years except for the 3 point line and that has hurt the game more than it has helped the game at all levels.


This has changed how the game is played, but it hasn't changed shooting fundamentals. The longer shot has placed more value on it, so it is taken more. Good shooting form is good shooting form no matter where you are on the court, the difference comes in physical strength and coordination in order to be able to shoot from a longer distance.

Edward Little had a big guard a few years ago, and you could not tell the difference in his shot whether he was from 15 feet or 26 feet...great form, but the strength to shoot it from a much further distance. Smaller, weaker players have to shoot more from the hips and chest and push the ball which in turn creates less arc.

The 3 point line has changed how the game is valued in terms or points....shooting form is still shooting form.
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Re: UMaine BB Teams shooting %'s below good HS %'s

Postby bcbc55 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:27 pm

Bulldog: Secret of developing a soft pure touch is to use the proper amount of leg depth for any shot you take. 3 pointers, jump shots, power layups or foul shots.

Have been giving shooting lessons ever since retiring from coaching in 2000 and the biggest correction to get the players taking the hourly shooting lessons is to get them to use more leg depth into their shots.

More legs soften the shot so that when it hits the rim it still has a chance to go in....call it Garbage shooting.

When not using enough leg then when ball hits rim and bounces away and the only way it goes in is a lucky bounce...call it BRICK shooting.

Only physical kineseology in shooting a basketball is snap releasing the ball when the shooter's legs are straight.

The other fundamental shooting skills are just simple mechanics that have to be disciplined into a players mind so they do them automatically every time they take a shot...this is done just through proper repititions.

They are in the following order of taking a shot

1. try to square feet to basket
2, catch ball in shooting position
3. hold ball correctly
4. aim for the correct target spot in the rim
5. Land forward on all shots except foul shot which stay on toe until ball doesn't or does go in

All described step-by-step, picture-by-picture, illustration-by illustration in a book I wrote in and published 1988, entitled "Basketballs Simplified and Scientific Methods Manual For Improving Perimeter Shooting Percentages" which used for shooting day camps that I ran and also for the individual hourly shooting lessons.

When a player misses a shot, remind them to, USE MORE LEGS.
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