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Re: Maine hs moving toward pitch-count restrictions

Postby TAL1957 » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:51 am

OldTownBaseball wrote:http://usatodayhss.com/2016/texas-baseball-coaches-association-to-recommend-pitch-count-limits

I don't suppose the Texas High School Baseball Coaches Association is an influential group?
The numbers proposed in this case certainly appear high enough to be pretty reasonable. Are these similar to what MPA is looking at ? I.e. :

"Pitch Smart suggests a 95-pitch limit per outing for ages 15-16 and a 105-pitch cap for ages 17-18, in addition to at least four days rest if a teen exceeds 76 pitches in a game. The THSBCA would make similar suggestions to the UIL, with an eye toward a 110-pitch limit per outing and 3-5 days of rest for 18- and 19-year-olds, per The Dallas Morning News. Pitch counts and rest periods would vary depending on the age of a pitcher and the number of pitches he threw previously."

Doesn't mean I agree with it, but it also seems like for most kids these limits wouldn't/shouldn't be a factor (i.e., most kids shouldn't throw more than these limits and wouldn't (responsible/knowledgeable coach assumed), except maybe the knuckleballer or very rare exception who has the right mechanics/conditioning/arm). Maybe an exception allowing for one game during the regular season and one during post-season where it's entirely up to the coach ? I also assume the kid can finish a batter when he reaches the limit ?

As for similar concern by the MPA for kids welfare in other sports, I assume they will also be proposing, immediately !!!, eliminating any form of tackle football, and eliminating it as a HS sport or going to closely regulated flag or hand-touch football only. Head injuries and CTE are a heck of a lot more serious than arm issues and the relatively uncommon TJ surgery in kids (most of whom won't play after HS, and almost None beyond that).
Jus sayin' ..... ?????
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Re: Maine hs moving toward pitch-count restrictions

Postby OldTownBaseball » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:32 pm

TAL1957 wrote:
OldTownBaseball wrote:http://usatodayhss.com/2016/texas-baseball-coaches-association-to-recommend-pitch-count-limits

I don't suppose the Texas High School Baseball Coaches Association is an influential group?
The numbers proposed in this case certainly appear high enough to be pretty reasonable. Are these similar to what MPA is looking at ? I.e. :

"Pitch Smart suggests a 95-pitch limit per outing for ages 15-16 and a 105-pitch cap for ages 17-18, in addition to at least four days rest if a teen exceeds 76 pitches in a game. The THSBCA would make similar suggestions to the UIL, with an eye toward a 110-pitch limit per outing and 3-5 days of rest for 18- and 19-year-olds, per The Dallas Morning News. Pitch counts and rest periods would vary depending on the age of a pitcher and the number of pitches he threw previously."

Doesn't mean I agree with it, but it also seems like for most kids these limits wouldn't/shouldn't be a factor (i.e., most kids shouldn't throw more than these limits and wouldn't (responsible/knowledgeable coach assumed), except maybe the knuckleballer or very rare exception who has the right mechanics/conditioning/arm). Maybe an exception allowing for one game during the regular season and one during post-season where it's entirely up to the coach ? I also assume the kid can finish a batter when he reaches the limit ?

As for similar concern by the MPA for kids welfare in other sports, I assume they will also be proposing, immediately !!!, eliminating any form of tackle football, and eliminating it as a HS sport or going to closely regulated flag or hand-touch football only. Head injuries and CTE are a heck of a lot more serious than arm issues and the relatively uncommon TJ surgery in kids (most of whom won't play after HS, and almost None beyond that).
Jus sayin' ..... ?????


I can only speak to the work we are trying to accomplish in baseball. The expansion of 8 & 2 began when Reg and I were attending coaches association conferences in Portland and finally came to fruition in the spring of 2016. The unfortunate part of all of this is that rules need to be put in place to protect the kid from the coach who will throw him for 150 pitches on one day, then three days later, trot him out there again.
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Re: Maine hs moving toward pitch-count restrictions

Postby mushing5 » Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:54 pm

OldTownBaseball wrote:
TAL1957 wrote:
OldTownBaseball wrote:http://usatodayhss.com/2016/texas-baseball-coaches-association-to-recommend-pitch-count-limits

I don't suppose the Texas High School Baseball Coaches Association is an influential group?
The numbers proposed in this case certainly appear high enough to be pretty reasonable. Are these similar to what MPA is looking at ? I.e. :

"Pitch Smart suggests a 95-pitch limit per outing for ages 15-16 and a 105-pitch cap for ages 17-18, in addition to at least four days rest if a teen exceeds 76 pitches in a game. The THSBCA would make similar suggestions to the UIL, with an eye toward a 110-pitch limit per outing and 3-5 days of rest for 18- and 19-year-olds, per The Dallas Morning News. Pitch counts and rest periods would vary depending on the age of a pitcher and the number of pitches he threw previously."

Doesn't mean I agree with it, but it also seems like for most kids these limits wouldn't/shouldn't be a factor (i.e., most kids shouldn't throw more than these limits and wouldn't (responsible/knowledgeable coach assumed), except maybe the knuckleballer or very rare exception who has the right mechanics/conditioning/arm). Maybe an exception allowing for one game during the regular season and one during post-season where it's entirely up to the coach ? I also assume the kid can finish a batter when he reaches the limit ?

As for similar concern by the MPA for kids welfare in other sports, I assume they will also be proposing, immediately !!!, eliminating any form of tackle football, and eliminating it as a HS sport or going to closely regulated flag or hand-touch football only. Head injuries and CTE are a heck of a lot more serious than arm issues and the relatively uncommon TJ surgery in kids (most of whom won't play after HS, and almost None beyond that).
Jus sayin' ..... ?????


I can only speak to the work we are trying to accomplish in baseball. The expansion of 8 & 2 began when Reg and I were attending coaches association conferences in Portland and finally came to fruition in the spring of 2016. The unfortunate part of all of this is that rules need to be put in place to protect the kid from the coach who will throw him for 150 pitches on one day, then three days later, trot him out there again.


we had 25 games last year with preseason, regular season and post season and never had a pitcher hit triple digits on pitch count and never pitch on 3 days rest, i had a great staff and a luxury of tons of pitching. i've seen with smaller schools where there is 2 pitchers and they pitch when they can next, in maine with our short season and 4 games a week makes it tough on coaches decisions and kids arms
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Re: Maine hs moving toward pitch-count restrictions

Postby Tom Nolette » Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:27 am

Maine doctor among proponents of high school pitch limits

... “The easiest thing to do is to follow the USA Baseball guidelines,” said Heinz. “Nobody knows what the actual number is, and the reality is the actual number is different for every pitcher. If you look at the Red Sox pitchers, each one has a different pitch count they adhere to, and that’s because they figured out they could throw up to that level and if they throw more than that, they’re going to have a sore arm.

“So it’s different for every individual, and it’s really hard to make a blanket policy that applies to everyone, but it’s a step in the right direction. I understand it’s a one-size-fits-no-one approach, but we have to do something, we just can’t let them keep throwing their arms out.”

http://bangordailynews.com/2016/04/06/s ... ch-limits/
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Re: Maine hs moving toward pitch-count restrictions

Postby Tom Nolette » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:10 am

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Re: Maine hs moving toward pitch-count restrictions

Postby Tom Nolette » Sun May 15, 2016 6:12 am

Pitch count may be coming to Maine’s high school baseball teams
The MPA is exploring changing its pitching rule from a limit on innings to a limit on pitches.

... But Maine high school coaches aren’t sure a change is needed. Those interviewed for this story said they already rely on pitch counts, among other factors, when determining how long a pitcher can go.

“I think most coaches are very, very conscious about a pitcher’s arm,” said Portland High’s Mike Rutherford. “And I think that the rule that we have works. Show me evidence why the innings rule doesn’t work.”

The MPA’s baseball committee is gathering information from medical experts and baseball officials to determine whether to change to a pitch count.

http://www.pressherald.com/2016/05/15/p ... all-teams/
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Re: Maine hs moving toward pitch-count restrictions

Postby MattyB » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:24 am

Coming next spring to high school baseball: Pitch counts

Starting next spring, Maine will restrict pitch counts rather than innings pitched in high school baseball.

The National Federation of State High School Associations, which establishes playing rules for high school athletics across the country, announced the change Tuesday.

Driving the change is a concern for safety, partly because of the rise in ligament-replacement elbow surgeries (known as Tommy John) among adolescents.

“We’ve had an inning rule for a number of years,” said Mike Burnham, an assistant executive director of the Maine Principals’ Association, “but during any given inning the number of pitches can fluctuate so much that this is just a better way of protecting those young arms.”

http://www.centralmaine.com/2016/07/12/ ... ch-counts/
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Re: Maine hs moving toward pitch-count restrictions

Postby Tom Nolette » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:09 am

Maine prepares to set pitch-count limits for high school baseball

AUGUSTA, Maine — A recent national mandate obligating most states to develop pitch-count standards for high school baseball beginning with the 2017 season came as no surprise to organizers of the sport in Maine.

“We’ve been planning for this,” Maine Principals’ Association baseball committee chair Phil St. Onge, assistant principal at Nokomis Regional High School of Newport, said recently. “We’ve been talking about this for about a year.”

The revised pitching policy — Rule 6-2-6 — was approved by the National Federation of State High School Associations’ baseball rules committee in early June and gained final backing from the group’s board of directors before being announced in a news release last week.

http://bangordailynews.com/2016/07/22/s ... -baseball/
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Re: Maine hs moving toward pitch-count restrictions

Postby Tom Nolette » Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:46 am

MPA begins talks over high school baseball pitch counts

.. The MPA baseball committee will meet Oct. 18 to come up with a number but first wanted input from the medical professionals on the sports medicine committee.

Dr. William Heinz, an Portland orthopedist, is a liaison to the sports medicine committee, as well as the chair of the National Federation of High School Associations medical board. Heinz said while a pitch count can help limit arm injuries, nothing can prevent them.

“Because of the increase in shoulder and arm injuries, we felt a better way to control this is pitch counts,” Heinz said. “The reality is there’s no magic number (of pitches).”

Heinz suggested a sliding scale for pitch counts, with varsity players allowed to throw more pitches than junior varsity and freshman players. St. Onge said how a pitch count is monitored will be a big topic for the baseball committee.

http://www.pressherald.com/2016/08/11/m ... ch-counts/
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Re: Maine hs moving toward pitch-count restrictions

Postby MattyB » Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:47 pm

Legion Baseball adopts pitch count rule for 2017

In an effort to minimize arm overuse injuries, American Legion Baseball has changed its pitching rule for the 2017 season. Legion Baseball has adopted regulations limiting pitchers based on the number of pitches thrown, replacing the previous rule which was focused on innings pitched.

This change is in line with USA Baseball’s Pitch Smart initiative, which includes series of practical, age-appropriate guidelines to help parents, players and coaches avoid overuse injuries and foster long, healthy careers for youth pitchers. Legion Baseball is seeking full compliance with the initiative, which has the support of Major League Baseball and numerous medical advisors

http://www.legion.org/baseball/234452/l ... -rule-2017

In the Legion senior program (ages 19 and under), pitchers will not be able to exceed 120 pitches in any single day, while pitchers in the junior program (ages 17 and under) may not exceed 105 pitches. Should pitchers hit the limit in the middle of an at-bat, they may finish pitching to that batter before being removed from the position.

Pitchers will not be able to make more than two appearances in any three-day span. In addition, pitchers will have required rest based on the number of pitches thrown in a given day.

Throwing 1-45 pitches in game action requires one day of rest, 46-60 pitches requires two days of rest, 61-75 pitches requires three days of rest and 76 or more pitches will require four days of rest.

Failure to adhere to the pitching rule will lead to the ejection of both the pitcher and the team manager if a protest is filed to the umpire-in-chief.
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